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Author Topic: BFG:R Chaos  (Read 65629 times)

Offline Armiger84

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BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #150 on: May 02, 2013, 02:15:05 PM »
Some proofreading thoughts:

Abbadon's 13th Black Crusade fleet list offers CSM-crewed vessels the opportunity to replace attack craft with thunderhawks, halving bay strengths and rounding down.

All 4 faction fleet lists (Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle, and Tzeentch) reference BFG:A page numbers for CSM crew rules & options, it's a minor edit but do we want that to point instead to the relevant section inside the document?  My assumption (my BFG:A book is at home and I'm at work) is that the Ordnance section I'm looking at in the faction lists are pointing at BFG:A's 13th Black Crusade list page, which give them access to the thunderhawk swap among other things.

Also, the Chaos Renegades fleet list (Relictor-class BB, chaos CLs) gives the option to upgrade to CSM crews, but omits the thunderhawk swap option.  Was that intentional?

My other question concerns Marks of Chaos.  The Gothic War list (page 41) keeps the original BFG Marks, while the CSM section (page 40) has a modified set of 5.

The other lists reference page 41 for CSM & Chaos Marks rules (and faction animosity for squadrons), though the section for them is page 40.  Do we want one controlling set of Marks rules for all fleets, or keep the old BFG Marks for the Gothic War and point all of the other lists to the CSM/Marks list on page 40?

Edit:  I realized the Abbadon's 13th Black Crusade list has the old Marks still too... Which leads me to question whether there's 2 Chaos Mark sets floating around at the moment? (I may have missed a discussion somewhere)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 08:16:13 PM by Armiger84 »
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Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #151 on: May 02, 2013, 09:45:43 PM »
Excellent, Armiger! I will work on those.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #152 on: May 02, 2013, 11:07:58 PM »
Almost done with the Chaos lists. I just need to do the Powers lists then I will move on to the Daemon Ships rules.

Offline Bessemer

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #153 on: May 03, 2013, 02:22:38 AM »
Just had a butchers at Chaos- Please disregard any you're already aware of or working on ;)

Cruisers in the following lists are given as battleships-
Gothic sector incursion
13th Black crusade
Renegade fleets


Plague fleets
Allows you to take the Wages Of Sin, Conqueror and Scion Of Prospero! is this intentional?! :o What did I miss?

Chaos lords in The Khorne, Slaanesh and Tzeench need changing to 30 pts. CSM crews need changing to 25pts

Havoc
we going with the 2010 profile instead of Plaxor's?

Despoiler
Wasn't there some discussion to make it 390?

Idolator
Didn't we make this 40pts? Please correct me if wrong!

CSM, Ordnance and Marks page
Something's  gone really wrong with the H&R section! looks like two versions have overlapped!
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #154 on: May 03, 2013, 04:24:05 AM »
Just had a butchers at Chaos- Please disregard any you're already aware of or working on ;)

Cruisers in the following lists are given as battleships-
Gothic sector incursion
13th Black crusade
Renegade fleets

Gotcha. I will fix this. Already have done some.

Plague fleets
Allows you to take the Wages Of Sin, Conqueror and Scion Of Prospero! is this intentional?! :o What did I miss?
No, this is just me working through the fleet lists and copy and pasting bulks over.
Chaos lords in The Khorne, Slaanesh and Tzeench need changing to 30 pts. CSM crews need changing to 25pts

Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh haven't really been messed with yet. They will end up looking like the Plague Fleet when I am done with them. Unfortunately, the pictures will have to go, as much as I want to keep them.
Havoc
we going with the 2010 profile instead of Plaxor's?
Hmm, good catch. I will look into this.

Despoiler
Wasn't there some discussion to make it 390?
Hmm, vote 46 changed the stats, but I can't find a 390pt vote at the moment. Please share a link if you find it.

Idolator
Didn't we make this 40pts? Please correct me if wrong!
Please share a link if you find this too.

CSM, Ordnance and Marks page
Something's  gone really wrong with the H&R section! looks like two versions have overlapped!
Yeah, that page for totally messed up. I will mess with it again.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #155 on: May 03, 2013, 06:30:12 AM »
Fleets should be done, barring mistakes.

Stuff I still need to do:
Terminus and Scion entries need editing.
Havoc messiness. I will look into it. I thought we were going with the WB version... ?
Figure out possible Idolator and Despoiler price changes.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #156 on: May 03, 2013, 09:22:58 PM »
Some proofreading thoughts:

Abbadon's 13th Black Crusade fleet list offers CSM-crewed vessels the opportunity to replace attack craft with thunderhawks, halving bay strengths and rounding down.
Not the Thunderhawk Gunship rules are listed in the CSM section and all fleets can use it. Did I miss what you were saying?

All 4 faction fleet lists (Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle, and Tzeentch) reference BFG:A page numbers for CSM crew rules & options, it's a minor edit but do we want that to point instead to the relevant section inside the document?  My assumption (my BFG:A book is at home and I'm at work) is that the Ordnance section I'm looking at in the faction lists are pointing at BFG:A's 13th Black Crusade list page, which give them access to the thunderhawk swap among other things.
I will probably generalize the references to rules within the document and not use page numbers. I believe I changed these references at this point because I can't find any more references to armada except once in the lore section now.

Also, the Chaos Renegades fleet list (Relictor-class BB, chaos CLs) gives the option to upgrade to CSM crews, but omits the thunderhawk swap option.  Was that intentional?
Hmm, I must have fixed this. I don't see what you are saying. Hopefully, the CSM section in the Renegade list now works that out.

My other question concerns Marks of Chaos.  The Gothic War list (page 41) keeps the original BFG Marks, while the CSM section (page 40) has a modified set of 5.
Changed. That was before I got to the Gothic list.

The other lists reference page 41 for CSM & Chaos Marks rules (and faction animosity for squadrons), though the section for them is page 40.  Do we want one controlling set of Marks rules for all fleets, or keep the old BFG Marks for the Gothic War and point all of the other lists to the CSM/Marks list on page 40?
Edit:  I realized the Abbadon's 13th Black Crusade list has the old Marks still too... Which leads me to question whether there's 2 Chaos Mark sets floating around at the moment? (I may have missed a discussion somewhere)
Fixed. Now there is one set of rules for marks.


Offline Bessemer

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #157 on: May 03, 2013, 11:15:13 PM »
Figure out possible Idolator and Despoiler price changes.

Disregard what I said about this! :-[ Colud only find these costs in Plaxor's BFGR. Could have sworn these prices came up at some point but can't for the life of me find the threads! Just stick to what we have! :-X
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #158 on: May 03, 2013, 11:19:29 PM »
Actually, it did come up in the "Despoiler" thread. I had just forgotten to add it to the stats when we voted on it. It was meant to go to 390 and +10 for torpedo swap. You were right!

Also, I think I have made all the changes to the document rules wise. Please proof read again! I will be going through right now to clean up the PDF.

Offline Bessemer

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2013, 01:28:21 AM »
Some ships have Imperial torpedoes in their description. Replace with "Torpedoes"?

Havoc- Remove the reference to weak armour, now it's armour is +5 all round?
            Remove from Incursion list? It is the BBB ships after all. ;)

In the entries for the BBB ships, the text is a lot less clear than the other stuff, but I'm guessing that is a flaw with the Doc itself and not under your control.

Other than that, Looks good. :) Will look again when I get the chance.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 01:31:32 AM by Bessemer »
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2013, 05:11:59 AM »
Made those changes, Bessemer. Don't know how the Havoc go into the Gothic Sector list. Changed Imperial Torpedoes to Standard Torpedoes. Changed the Havoc lore section to the original Bakka lore.

Notice anything else?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 05:57:10 AM by afterimagedan »

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #161 on: May 07, 2013, 04:45:02 PM »
Are we ready to vote to finalize this?

Offline Neferhet

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #162 on: May 08, 2013, 08:51:16 AM »
Yes Master

Offline Armiger84

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #163 on: May 10, 2013, 03:39:19 AM »
As threatened, here's my typos list.  I'm sure there's stuff I missed too, but hopefully I got the majority of it:

Pg 11:  "These vessels may purchase one of the following upgrades at the paints cost listed:" should be "points"

Pg 16:  I don't recall, was there supposed to be some minor bit of text limiting the number of variant Murders in a fleet list?  No more than half of the Murders fielded due to relative rarity, or something like that?  Or did we choose not to bother with that restriction?

Pg 17:  Slaughter-Class Cruiser has Prow Batteries str 6 30cm Front arc and Prow weapons batteries st4 8 30cm left ("port") arc.  Should be strength 8 30cm Port Batteries.

Pg 30:  Only realized this now, but the image for the Scion of Prospero depicts weapons batteries and lance turrets, but the rules only list weapons batteries in the loadout.  Are we taking the "Slaughter" approach to gunnery (which is totally fine by me)?

Pg 33:  "Ships with the Mark of Khornehave double their boarding value."  Needs a space, alternatively, the "have" is unnecessary anyhow.

Pg 33:  Under Chaos Ordnance, the first time Doomfire Bombers are mentioned, they're typo'd "Doomjire."

Pg 40:  Chaos Strike Cruisers.  I would suggest a re-wording of this paragraph:  "If the Warmaster's ship is given a Chaos Space Marine crew, it is assumed that he too is a Chaos Space Marine.  As such, the fleet may include 1 Chaos Strike Cruiser for every full 500 points, and may take 0-1 Chaos Battle Barge total.  Chaos Strike Cruisers and Chaos Battle Barges follow the rules and upgrade options for their Imperial counterparts, except that they are crewed by Chaos Space Marines, and may take Marks of Chaos."

The last bit about being able to take Marks of Chaos is my extrapolation from the fact that they're crewed with Chaos Space Marines.

ALSO, here's a BIG QUESTION:  should the 0-1 Battle Barge be limited to "Standard" Battle Barges, or should we just blow the doors wide open and permit the Seditio Opprimere and Venerable BBs?  I kinda like the idea of being able to use that to backdoor in an Emperor-class BB with Thunderhawk Gunships and a CSM crew.  (A) The thing certainly won't come cheap, and (B) in the lore, that ship class has been around since the Dark Age of Technology anyhow, and (C) it would generally be a decent way to demonstrate the wide variety of ships available to the Great Crusade fleets and what might still be kicking around in a Legion's arsenal (or what might have been captured and repurposed since).  Dunno how comfortable other people might be with the option to "give Chaos ALL THE THINGS" though...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 03:42:43 AM by Armiger84 »
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Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #164 on: May 10, 2013, 05:11:52 AM »
As threatened, here's my typos list.  I'm sure there's stuff I missed too, but hopefully I got the majority of it:

Pg 11:  "These vessels may purchase one of the following upgrades at the paints cost listed:" should be "points"
Hehe, paints. Fixed.
Pg 16:  I don't recall, was there supposed to be some minor bit of text limiting the number of variant Murders in a fleet list?  No more than half of the Murders fielded due to relative rarity, or something like that?  Or did we choose not to bother with that restriction?
Checked through the old documents and didn't see anything like that.
Pg 17:  Slaughter-Class Cruiser has Prow Batteries str 6 30cm Front arc and Prow weapons batteries st4 8 30cm left ("port") arc.  Should be strength 8 30cm Port Batteries.
Fixed.
Pg 30:  Only realized this now, but the image for the Scion of Prospero depicts weapons batteries and lance turrets, but the rules only list weapons batteries in the loadout.  Are we taking the "Slaughter" approach to gunnery (which is totally fine by me)?
Changed the picture.
Pg 33:  "Ships with the Mark of Khornehave double their boarding value."  Needs a space, alternatively, the "have" is unnecessary anyhow.
Fixed.
Pg 33:  Under Chaos Ordnance, the first time Doomfire Bombers are mentioned, they're typo'd "Doomjire."
Fixed.
Pg 40:  Chaos Strike Cruisers.  I would suggest a re-wording of this paragraph:  "If the Warmaster's ship is given a Chaos Space Marine crew, it is assumed that he too is a Chaos Space Marine.  As such, the fleet may include 1 Chaos Strike Cruiser for every full 500 points, and may take 0-1 Chaos Battle Barge total.  Chaos Strike Cruisers and Chaos Battle Barges follow the rules and upgrade options for their Imperial counterparts, except that they are crewed by Chaos Space Marines, and may take Marks of Chaos."
Well said. I pasted your right in there instead.
The last bit about being able to take Marks of Chaos is my extrapolation from the fact that they're crewed with Chaos Space Marines.

ALSO, here's a BIG QUESTION:  should the 0-1 Battle Barge be limited to "Standard" Battle Barges, or should we just blow the doors wide open and permit the Seditio Opprimere and Venerable BBs?  I kinda like the idea of being able to use that to backdoor in an Emperor-class BB with Thunderhawk Gunships and a CSM crew.  (A) The thing certainly won't come cheap, and (B) in the lore, that ship class has been around since the Dark Age of Technology anyhow, and (C) it would generally be a decent way to demonstrate the wide variety of ships available to the Great Crusade fleets and what might still be kicking around in a Legion's arsenal (or what might have been captured and repurposed since).  Dunno how comfortable other people might be with the option to "give Chaos ALL THE THINGS" though...
At this point, it says Battle Barge and not Venerable Battle Barge. If we want both options, I should clarity it. I will go check the dialogue we had on it because we may have already intended one stance on this question.