BFG:R Chaos

[afterimagedan]

We are really close with Chaos. Anything that needs to change before it's final?

[AndrewChristlieb]

Well cosmetics, little things like page numbers and such. How does everyone feel about the FAQ additions, CSM, Abbadon (and all the commanders/ marks) and Daemon ships.

[afterimagedan]

When it's all said and done and the rules are completed, I will go touch up the cosmetic stuff.

[Sigoroth]

Er, what's the progress on Chaos?

[afterimagedan]

It's ready for review. I forgot to put the link in this thread but it's in the "Finishing BFG:R" thread. Here it is:

++BFG:R Chaos Fleets++

[Talos]

I feel we should implement plaxor's take on the Marks of Chaos. As it stands they are an expensive upgrade, especially when tacked on to the price of a Warmaster/Chaos Lord/CSM crew. Do not know much about daemon ships, but they also seem pretty pricy, especially when you factor in their mark as well.

[afterimagedan]

Plaxor's approach is way better and I highly support moving to that method. In the current method, taking a mark on your ship is a minimum of 70pts PER SHIP in the Chaos Incursion fleet and 50pts per ship in the Black Crusade fleet. It's also kind of a joke to me that in the fleets for each chaos god, you can still only take marks on vessels that have a chaos lord or warmaster. You mean to tell me that you cannot take the mark of Khorne on every cruiser in your berzerker fleet of Khorne?!

[AndrewChristlieb]

Only champions of chaos get marked so why should any old ship get that benifit? I dont know about CSM getting the option either but i guess theres a better chance of a CSM ship gaining the favor of a god than some pirates.

[afterimagedan]

Only champions of chaos get marked so why should any old ship get that benifit? I dont know about CSM getting the option either but i guess theres a better chance of a CSM ship gaining the favor of a god than some pirates.

My point is, why can't each ship in the Berzerker fleet have a mark of khorne? That seems ridiculous to me.

[AndrewChristlieb]

They can, i have built such a fleet, use CSM. Yes its pricy but with the additional benifits they should be a bit more pricy.

[afterimagedan]

I don't know about more pricey but the CSM and a mark is well worth it. I guess having CSM and a mark makes sense but it still seems weird to me that you would have to have a lord, warmaster, or CSMs to have a mark. Either way, not a biggie to me.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Well lets work out the command structrue for chaos then.

Points of interest:

Abbadon: yes no? price and abilities

Commanders: price, leadership, ability to take marks, most expensive ship and anything else you can think of.

CSM: the same mainly cost and what they add but also what marks if any they can take and whatever else that comes up.

Marks: price and function basically

Rerolls?

Daemon ships: not really command but its in there somewhere Nd theyre widly reguarded as poo.

[ThaneAquilon]

So yeah, I agree marks/leaders need work, but just a quick note, and I may have overlooked this, but there isn't a fleet list that uses the Vengeful Spirit that I saw. The other thing, other legions should be able to use marks. I get that fluff-wise the Alpha Legion or the Night Lords don't get as into Chaos as Emperor's Children, but mechanically we shouldn't punish players for painting their fleet the way they want.

[afterimagedan]

Well lets work out the command structrue for chaos then.

Points of interest:

Abbadon: yes no? price and abilities
Keep him. I think he is fine as is
Commanders: price, leadership, ability to take marks, most expensive ship and anything else you can think of.
I like the original BFG:R method where they are each 15pts, you can take them on any cruiser, and they have a smaller effect than the old marks. If we do keep the old marks, I think they should be priced a a little lower and streamlined throughout the different fleet lists. Slaanesh to 20pts, Khorne to 15pts. Tzeentch 15pts. Nurgle, 25pts.
CSM: the same mainly cost and what they add but also what marks if any they can take and whatever else that comes up.
they seem fine to me
Marks: price and function basically

Rerolls?
Seems weird that chaos incursion list fleets cannot buy an extra re-roll. I guess they are allowing him to take multiple marks. Maybe this should be changed?
Daemon ships: not really command but its in there somewhere Nd theyre widly reguarded as poo.\
I don't have enough input to add here.

[Talos]

CSM: What about a 5 pts drop because their boarding bonus is partly superflous?

As for Chaos Marks, agreed with Thane about legion limitations; restrictions for aligned legions obviously, but that's it.

As for Marks, like afterimagedan I feel like these should be allowed without a CSM/Chaos Lord/Warmaster. It just fits chaos, and it's not like they have so many cheap upgrades kicking around to clutter their stats ...

Mark of Khorne: 15pts sounds fine, cheap but effective, could be more but a limited tactic so its fine.
Mark of Tzeench: 20pts sounds fine, ok on regular ships but extra potent on carriers (BFG:R profile of course)
Mark of Slanesh: 20pts seems a little steep for this, especially considering limited range. I suggest either boosting range or lowering price, as this becomes pretty useful if any ship can be marked.
Mark of Nurgle: 25pts is fairly steep for this; the extra hit is worth 10 pts, so 15pt for the ability to not be boarded? Most fleets just H&R anyways, so my suggestion is 20pts.

I think all fleets should use a standardized reroll price, on every single list IMO.

Again I have no real opinion on daemon ships, but have also heard they are crappy.