August 01, 2024, 11:27:29 AM

Author Topic: BFG:R Chaos  (Read 65622 times)

Offline Brethren

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #75 on: February 06, 2013, 10:26:28 PM »
What extras does it not get?
Was talking about Light Cruisers and Renegade Ships.

As for the rest... I'm just popping ideas, not necessary something solid. ;D

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2013, 12:06:40 AM »
If the light cruisers (only allowed in one "R" list which should alleviate any problems with having them in the first place) count towards restriction limits thats a big boon, losing it would then be felt.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2013, 03:33:52 PM »
On that note, I always thought it was weird that some of the Legion specific Battlebarges came without CSM, despite the fact that they are still owned and operated by those very same legions. I am lloking at the thousand sons and death guard here. And since we have reduced the cost of the marks, IMO we should implement something of the sort.

1) Reduce the costs of the Conqueror and the Wage of Sin by 5-10pts, due to cheaper marks and enforced CSM + fleet restrictions.

2) Increase the cost of the Vengeful Spirit, terminus est and the Scion of Prospero by 5-10pts and throw in CSM rules all of them. These vessels are legion only and running them without marines is just foolish. Possibly change the hives of nurgle to act normally, or affect boarding torpedoes (since they are manned and thus should be affected by the Hives)

What do you guys think? Am I barking mad or just barking up the wrong tree? Or am I barking right? And does that phrase even make sense?


Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2013, 05:42:05 PM »
Good call, the Conq and WoS both have csm as part of their cost but the Est, VS, and Scion do not. They should have CSM standard, along with the vanilla CSM barge. 
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Koshi

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2013, 08:05:19 PM »
What about including the Apostate Class Heavy Raider from the Additional Ships Compendium? Would be a nice addition.

Offline Talos

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2013, 08:30:44 PM »
Post its stats and we will talk ;) :D

Offline Brethren

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2013, 11:25:34 PM »

Apostate class heavy raider (50 pts)

Escort/1 | Speed 25cm | Turn 90° | Shield 1 | Armour 5+ | Turret 1

WBattery   - 30cm | 2 | L/F/R
Lance        - 45cm | 1 | L/F/R
Torpedoes -          | 2 | F


Even being a traitor captain I'm against including a ship with such a armament.
A '45cm L/F/R' Lance on a escort plus torpedoes? This thing makes Infidels and Idolators obsolete.
It may be an approach to a expensive 2-hit chaos escort... but like this? No.  :o

The Additional Ships Compendium is quite old. Some of the ships in it appear again, like the Desecrator class battleship, the Executor and Retaliator class grand cruisers or the Hecate class heavy cruiser.
Others weren't seen again... I think for a reason. Some ships seem 'broken' even at first sight.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 11:30:44 PM by Brethren »

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2013, 11:55:08 PM »

Apostate class heavy raider (50 pts)

Escort/1 | Speed 25cm | Turn 90° | Shield 1 | Armour 5+ | Turret 1

WBattery   - 30cm | 2 | L/F/R
Lance        - 45cm | 1 | L/F/R
Torpedoes -          | 2 | F


Yes please, I'll take a dozen.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #83 on: February 08, 2013, 12:55:24 AM »
It is really good, if oddly fragile for such an expensive escort. At 2hits 55pts it would be probably bee acceptable, although even then swapping the battery and lance ranges seems like a better idea.

Offline Brethren

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2013, 10:23:02 AM »
It is really good, if oddly fragile for such an expensive escort. At 2hits 55pts it would be probably bee acceptable, although even then swapping the battery and lance ranges seems like a better idea.
Fragile as any escort. My start would be to set the lance to 30cm forward only. 45cm on escorts is rare and should remain so.

Offline Khar

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2013, 10:40:53 AM »
Actually, I don't think it's a particularily good escort. It suffers from the same problems Hellebore used to have in eldar list - it has weapon loadout with little internal synergy. It might seem universal, having weapon for every occasion, but in practice it never can use its full potential.
Ideally, it should be both on lock-on and reload ordnance every turn - otherwise either lance is not working on full effectivenes or it can't fire its torpedoes. So in no way I see it as overpowered. It's just paying a bit extra for flexibility.  [I agree it should have bigger price difference with idolator, though. Lance itself is worth it.]

I'd think about changing its lance fire arc to F. With l/f/r version it would almost always be in position to lock on, making torpedo choice inferior in most cases, and turning them into effectively one shot weapon. Reducing the range isn't necessary, I think, but I agree that 45cm lances on escorts need to be treated carefully when desigining rules.

Also, I'm fan of changing those heavily armed escorts to 2 hits. They should have more mass and size, just to house all the weapon systems.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 10:45:10 AM by Khar »

Offline harec

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #86 on: February 08, 2013, 10:42:50 AM »
It is really good, if oddly fragile for such an expensive escort. At 2hits 55pts it would be probably bee acceptable, although even then swapping the battery and lance ranges seems like a better idea.
Fragile as any escort. My start would be to set the lance to 30cm forward only. 45cm on escorts is rare and should remain so.
We can introduce overloading rule if used farder than 30cm
I colaborate with a spanish blog called profanus40k.
http://profanus40k.blogspot.com.es/

Offline Talos

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2013, 02:27:10 PM »
Problem with overload is that most similar overload rules would be crippling to an escort. As for its fragility, yes all escorts are fragile, but most escorts at 50pts or more have better defenses. The thing only has 1 turret!

It is fast with 90 degree turns, so forward facing would be a good choice on the lance.

On a side note, is IN now going to be the only race without a heavy escort? We are making one for chaos, and eldar, Orks, Necron and Tau all have 1. I guess that leaves SM, IN and DE. Just musing...

Offline Brethren

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #88 on: February 08, 2013, 03:51:20 PM »
We are making one for chaos, and eldar, Orks, Necron and Tau all have 1.
I'm kind of amazed how 'can we include that one' skips so fast to 'going to be a new 2 hit escort'.
It may sound fair that every fleet got its own heavy escort, but I wasn't counting on it.

Honestly, I won't be sad if the Apostate question ends in: "Sorry, but no."

Offline harec

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Re: BFG:R Chaos
« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2013, 03:58:22 PM »
Problem with overload is that most similar overload rules would be crippling to an escort. As for its fragility, yes all escorts are fragile, but most escorts at 50pts or more have better defenses. The thing only has 1 turret!

It is fast with 90 degree turns, so forward facing would be a good choice on the lance.

On a side note, is IN now going to be the only race without a heavy escort? We are making one for chaos, and eldar, Orks, Necron and Tau all have 1. I guess that leaves SM, IN and DE. Just musing...
You forgot the kraken tyranids, but anyway imperium and caos have heavy escorts on the defences lists.
I colaborate with a spanish blog called profanus40k.
http://profanus40k.blogspot.com.es/