BFG:R Chaos

[afterimagedan]

Again, which others? Incursion says you can take them. 13th Black Crusade says you can take them.

[AndrewChristlieb]

It literally say "Others". pg 45 Armada. This would be Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, and any home grown or traitor chapters such as The Red Corsairs, The Purge, The Scourged, the Blood Disciples, the Company of Misery, the Crimson Slaughter, the Sons of Malice, The Cleaved, etc...

[afterimagedan]

Gotcha, so it's a fluff thing. There isn't any particular fleet that can't take them, but there are other or factions that it says cannot. Gotcha. That's lame and should be changed. Hardly need a vote on that.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I would think they should be limited to the same mark tho.

[Bessemer]

While Marks are still on the go, I have recently come across the rules for the mark of Undivided in the Planet Killer mag I've dug up (yes I'm Old...)

25pts
Use once per game, declare you are using it at start of turn. The whole fleet gets to use the Warmasters Ld for the rest of the turn.

Any love for this? Or should it be re-worked/discarded?

[afterimagedan]

I wouldn't be against that but it would only be allowed on the warmaster, I suppose.

[AndrewChristlieb]

As a once per game it doesnt sound unreasonable.

[afterimagedan]

AND another attempt.....

--------------------------

All Chaos Fleets...
LD 8 Lord 50pts
LD 9 Warmaster 75pts
-comes with 1 RR.

All Chaos Fleets...
Secondary Commanders just like Imperial Navy (30pts) but no RR allowed (they need MoT for that)

All Chaos Fleets...
CSM exactly how they used to be but allows the ship to have the SM Ld chart (8-10) and instead adds +1 to the Lord or Warmaster if on the same ship.

Chaos Marks (all 15pts, on any capitol ship, 1 mark per ship, squadrons may only have 1 type of mark):
-Mark of Tzeentch: the ship gets a RR to use on itself or squadron. A Mark of Tzeentch taken on a ship with a Lord or Warmaster costs 25pts and can be used like a regular RR. (only 1 MoT per squadron)
-Mark of Nurgle: +1 hit on that ship.
-Mark of Slaanesh: Enemies within 15cm suffer -1 to their Ld value.
-Mark of Khorne: the ship doubles their boarding value.
-Mark of Chaos Undivided (25pts): May only be taken on a Lord or Warmaster. Once per game, the Lord or Warmaster may expend the Mark of Chaos Undivided and allow the entire fleet to use their leadership value for the rest of the turn.
--All Chaos fleets are allowed to take marks of Chaos.
--Squadrons may only have one type of Mark on its ships.
Abaddon:
-150pts
-Built in CSM rules and Terminators (Black Legion) instead of original boarding rules and H&R rules
-original RR per turn rules.
-original "angry" rules
-original double boarding value
-original Ld 10
-no Warmasters allowed in the fleet
-Abaddon may not take additional RRs

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ok so Ive been working on an idea here to split off the CSM from the standard Chaos fleets. What Im looking at here is a fleet list borrowing a couple ideas from the standard Space Marine list, a small selection of ships that fit with the SM ideal and receive the CSM rules at a slight discount (25 pts vs 35 pts), and the special rules from the Powers of Chaos PDF. My thinking here is that people could get a good basis for a pure CSM fleet AND get a discount at the cost of flexability much like the standard Marine list, most obviously a lack of line ships.

Fleet commander:
0-1 CSM Warmaster (Ld 10)........... 50 pts
0-3 Fleet Commander re-rolls......... 25 pts
Mark of Slaanesh.......................... 15 pts
-Forces of Chaos: Veil of Lust......... 20 pts
-Forces of Chaos: Siren’s Summon.. 25 pts
Mark of Khorne............................. 15 pts
-Forces of Chaos: Bezerker Tide...... Free
Mark of Tzeentch.......................... 25 pts
-Forces of Chaos: Warp Beasts....... 25 pts
-Forces of Chaos: Strand of Fortune. 25 pts
Mark of Nurgle.............................. 25 pts
-Forces of Chaos: Hives of Nurgle.... 10 pts
-Forces of Chaos: Ark of Pestilence.. 5 pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided................ 25 pts
Terminator Teleport Assault............ 10 pts (Battleships and Grand cruisers only)

Battleships:

Desecrator………………………….... 390 pts
Despoiler: ……………………………… 425 pts
Chaos Battle Barge:……………….. 445 pts
(0-1)Conqueror……………………… 380 pts
(0-1)Wage of Sin……………………. 430 pts
(0-1)Terminus Est…………………… 430 pts
(0-1)Scion of Prospero……….…… 450 pts

Grand Cruisers:
Nephilim……………………………….. 275 pts
Retaliator………………………………. 300 pts
Heavy Cruisers:
Styx……………………………………….. 285 pts
Hecate…………………………………… 255 pts
0-12 Cruisers:
Devastation…………………………… 215 pts
Slaughter………………………………. 190 pts
Heretic………………………………….. 145 pts
Schismatic…………………………….. 145 pts
Unbeliever……………………………. 150 pts

Escorts:
Iconoclast…………………………….. 30 pts
Infidel…………………………………… 45 pts
Idolator………………………………… 45 pts


So... thoughts, ideas, comments? Do you think seperating the CSM and Chaos (much like the 12th and 13th lists) could work?

[afterimagedan]

I like it but I think the Relictor should be in there. I am highly in support of a CSM list but I don't think having this list out there should take away from the current chaos progress. But yes, I am in favor of the pure CSM fleet and I am quite happy with how this looks.

[Talos]

@AndrewChristlieb Good work bro! Good to see some out of the box thought process. I am in favor.

Dan's right though; we should tackle chaos primary, get'er done, and then hammer out this list. But so were clear that list is exactly what is needed.

[afterimagedan]

OK, so shoukd we start taking votes on the basics of Chaos?

[harec]

It is ok for me , and I like a lot andrews list

[Bessemer]

Yep, lets get it goin'

[afterimagedan]

So, I think we should include these ships: Relictor, Desecrator, Cerberus, Heretic, Unbeliever, Schismatic, Havoc

Could we discuss these? The Cerberus is the inferno so that's easy to just include. I am highly in favor of the Relictor and the Desecrator, primarily.