BFG:R Chaos

[afterimagedan]

I didn't see any more discussion on VBB so I think the original implication was just the standard BB.

[Armiger84]

That works fine with me.  I mean, in a really big game, 3 BBs and you can bring over anything you want from an imperial list anyhow.  I figured the intent was just to get a standard battle barge into this list, I'm just poking at stuff like this to look for loopholes

[afterimagedan]

True, true. Other than that, everything else look ok?

[Brethren]

Found a minor typo. Can I keep it?

The Fleet Lists list the Nephilim class grand cruiser as Nephilum.

Other than that... I know I've been "away" some time now. When did we decide to leave Andrews CSM List out?

[afterimagedan]

There are now some ways to make a CSM list in the new document though it won't look exactly like the SM list. The Powers of Chaos list have CSM for a discounted price and can take them on any capital ship.

[blekinge]

Hi

I was looking through the chaos document, and noticed that I could not find any reference to the old +1 bonus to boarding. CSM still gives +2 to boarding, and reference that chaos normally get +1, but this seems like a forgotten leftover.

Have this rule been removed for chaos?

[Sigoroth]

Hi

I was looking through the chaos document, and noticed that I could not find any reference to the old +1 bonus to boarding. CSM still gives +2 to boarding, and reference that chaos normally get +1, but this seems like a forgotten leftover.

Have this rule been removed for chaos?

It's in the rules for boarding, not in the Chaos document.

[blekinge]

That depends on the rulebook. The 1.5 and 1.6 version of the BFG:R does not mention this. It mentions "aggressive", however.

This really goes to the question of what rulebook to use for BFG:R

But thanks for letting me know that chaos still have +1 for boarding

BTw, you guys are doing an amazing job for BFG. I thank you

[afterimagedan]

There is a merged 2010 faq rules document being made. I think that will be the best to use.

[horizon]

Agreed.

[Armiger84]

<sigh>  I'm going to be "that guy"...

Slow morning at work, was flipping through the final versions of the BFG:R Chaos & Space Marines lists (something I should have done when we were editing earlier), and realized that the VBB entry describes thunderhawk upgrades as "halve launch bays, rounding up," and the CSM thunderhawk upgrades are listed as "halve launch bays, rounding down."  Now, there's only 2-3 ships where this even matters (Styx (specifically used as an example in the VBB entry), Retaliator, Exorcist), so I guess my question is, is this an issue?

I know that as a Chaos player I'd want to get 4 squadrons instead of 2 out of a 6 hangar bay CG, but taking CSMs does also open up the possibility of Marking a ship too, so the value of those +35 points isn't exactly 1:1 between the two lists.  I also don't have my Armada book in front of me, and I don't remember if the original language for Chaos thunderhawks was "rounding down" either.

On the one hand it's differing applications of (nearly) the same rule, on the other hand, it's easily rationalized by "CSMs have been fighting the Long War in some cases for millennia... stuff breaks down, shortages are common, it's extremely difficult to keep things at full strength."

[afterimagedan]

I think both should round up. Equal points for equal upgrades. Yes, it allows forms mark, but the marks costs its own amount of points. And thanks for being that guy. We need more people to fund these things!

[horizon]

Round up. If overpowered, increase cost.

[Armiger84]

@Horizon:

Works for me.  +35 points gets a carrier +1 Ld and half-strength launch bays cranking out hybrid fighter/assault boats... pretty much a chaos admiral's dream.

The risk of course is in possibly building an overpowered ship... but here's an example:

Retaliator 275pts
CSMs & Thawks +35pts
(+1 Ld Sensor Prow +20pts)

You end up with a 10 hit, 3 shield, 3 turret CG that can generate 4 Thawk tokens with a possible/likely Ld9-10 for reloading ordnance & 45cm batteries & lances... for 310-330 points.

Powerful, yes, but we're in battleship cost territory at that point to begin with, which is going to force that kind of overload into larger fleet engagements anyway.

In comparison, a Despoiler with CSMs would put out 4 squadrons of Thawks with better supporting fire with +4 battery strength & +15cm to range for 425pts base, possibly 435 if the player bought shorter stronger lances.  Swapping out hangar strength for torpedoes would cap the Despoiler at 3 squadrons.

Similar strength on a SM Emperor VBB would cost 400pts (365+35) and would still massively outweigh the Retaliator for weight of fire, turrets, and shields.

I'll try to play-test it a little when I get the chance.  It's hard to say definitively looking at the stats that its ok or overpowered, but given the cost it doesn't "feel" too bad... basically a "pocket" battle barge that can't quite take the same punishment.

[horizon]

That's why I voted against Grand Cruisers with six launch bays.     
Only Styx may have that.