August 02, 2024, 09:18:50 AM

Author Topic: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus  (Read 43757 times)

Offline Vaaish

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 986
    • Digital Equinox
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #135 on: March 03, 2013, 01:29:22 AM »
no, you are paying for a required fleet commander. It's never been guaranteed that would be an improvement; we assume it is an improvement because the FC usually gives us some added benefit like with a reroll or extra gift or better LD. In fact, the BBB makes it clear that sometimes the FC won't be an improvement to LD. That's how it's intended, had it been otherwise we would have been told that the highest LD is what's used. The effect is not an oversight.
-Vaaish

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #136 on: March 03, 2013, 01:46:42 AM »

There is a problem with that yes, were paying for an improvement and 8 is not an improvement.

This, exactly.

no, you are paying for a required fleet commander. It's never been guaranteed that would be an improvement; we assume it is an improvement because the FC usually gives us some added benefit like with a reroll or extra gift or better LD. In fact, the BBB makes it clear that sometimes the FC won't be an improvement to LD. That's how it's intended, had it been otherwise we would have been told that the highest LD is what's used. The effect is not an oversight.

We are trying for game balanced here so the Admech commander should be similar to the other commanders. He's right in between the SM and IN commanders, so let's price it accordingly. 

Proposal:

1 Commander, ld9, chosen gift 50pts. Rerolls 25pts each just like IN and SM.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2013, 02:31:31 AM »
no, you are paying for a required fleet commander. It's never been guaranteed that would be an improvement; we assume it is an improvement because the FC usually gives us some added benefit like with a reroll or extra gift or better LD. In fact, the BBB makes it clear that sometimes the FC won't be an improvement to LD. That's how it's intended, had it been otherwise we would have been told that the highest LD is what's used. The effect is not an oversight.

Nope your paying for an improvement, even at the worst an In or Chaos etc only has a 16% chance that their leadership 8 commander is a downgrade and a 50% chance that it will be an upgrade with the difference breaking even, your Admech ld8 commander has a 50% chance of being a downgrade and only a 16% chance of being an improvement. Thats just plain bad.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Vaaish

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 986
    • Digital Equinox
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #138 on: March 03, 2013, 02:54:35 AM »
Quote
1 Commander, ld9, chosen gift 50pts. Rerolls 25pts each just like IN and SM.

I could go for this. It will require an update to the Ark's rules though.
-Vaaish

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #139 on: March 03, 2013, 03:19:33 AM »
(0-1) Omnissiah’s Victory . . . . . . . . . . . . . TBD Points -Needs work on special rules.
Emperor Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 390 Points 
Retribution Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380 Points 
Oberon Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380 Points 

Dictator Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 245 Points
Tyrant Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points
Lunar Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points
Gothic Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points
Endeavor Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145 Points
Endurance Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145 Points
Defiant Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 135 Points

Nova Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 Points
Firestorm Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 Points
Gladius Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40 Points
Sword Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Falchion Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Hunter Destroyer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Cobra Destroyer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Points

So based off our earlier discussions on ship price and assuming a nominal 10pt premium for the random gift I have adjusted the ship costs to reflect the BFG-R ship profile updates. With exception to the Ark do these sound reasonable to start testing?
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #140 on: March 03, 2013, 03:26:57 AM »
Actually, the new upgrades are pretty hefty. I would like to talk about the integrated  prices a little more.

I'm thinking:

Light +10
Cruiser +25-30 (considering the hefty new gift direction and lance)
Battleship +20 (gifts improve them more)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 03:32:06 AM by afterimagedan »

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #141 on: March 03, 2013, 04:15:50 AM »
1 Commander, ld9 + chosen gift 50pts. Rerolls 25pts each up to 2.

Shall I put this up for a vote?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #142 on: March 03, 2013, 04:48:42 AM »
(0-1) Omnissiah’s Victory . . . . . . . . . . . . . TBD Points -Needs work on special rules.
Emperor Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 390 Points  25
Retribution Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380 Points  25
Oberon Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380 Points  25

Dictator Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 245 Points 35
Tyrant Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points 35
Lunar Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points 35
Gothic Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points 35
Endeavor Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145 Points 20
Endurance Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145 Points 20
Defiant Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 135 Points 20

Nova Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 Points
Firestorm Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 Points
Gladius Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40 Points
Sword Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Falchion Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Hunter Destroyer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Cobra Destroyer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Points

So based off our earlier discussions on ship price and assuming a nominal 10pt premium for the random gift I have adjusted the ship costs to reflect the BFG-R ship profile updates. With exception to the Ark do these sound reasonable to start testing?

Actually, the new upgrades are pretty hefty. I would like to talk about the integrated  prices a little more.

I'm thinking:

Light +10
Cruiser +25-30 (considering the hefty new gift direction and lance)
Battleship +20 (gifts improve them more)

As you can see the battleship have been bumped 25pts, cruisers 35pts, and light cruisers 20pts nice bright yellow to make us squint!
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #143 on: March 03, 2013, 04:52:46 AM »
Splendid. Should we vote on the updated point values?

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4197
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #144 on: March 03, 2013, 05:39:48 AM »
I could tag along on them.

Offline Vaaish

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 986
    • Digital Equinox
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #145 on: March 03, 2013, 06:27:54 AM »
Can we hold the added point cost until the gifts change? The gifts are still in flux and I think we get ahead of ourselves to fix the prices of the ships until we have something solid to base it on.
-Vaaish

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #146 on: March 03, 2013, 03:58:56 PM »
In see your point on that Vaaish, but I think we have a baseline in  AWR that we are aiming for matching. I suppose we should hold off just to make sure we don't end up with something more drastic.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #147 on: March 05, 2013, 05:18:27 PM »
Considering the changes and the point changes posted by andrew a few posts back, what should we change about the Omnissiah's victory?

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #148 on: March 06, 2013, 04:45:24 AM »
Proposed new Commanders:
Archmagos, ld9, chosen gift 50pts. 0-2 Rerolls @ 25pts each

Proposed Gifts of The Omnissiah Distribution Pool:
Each capital ship in your fleet grants you 1d6 to roll on the gifts table. A capital ship that rolls a 6 for leadership selects a single gift from the gifts table instead of rolling for a gift. These gifts form a pool from which the player must assign one gift to every eligible capital ship in your fleet.

Proposed Gifts of The Omnissiah:
Emergency Energy Reserves:A ship with EER becomes crippled when it loses more than 50% of its starting hit points. When crippled, the ship reduces its turrets, shielding, and weapons strength to 75% instead of 50%. The vessel still counts as crippled in every other respect.

Advanced Engines: The ship gains +5cm speed, reduces the minimum distance to turn by 5cm, and add +1D6 when on All Ahead Full special orders.

Advanced Shielding: Weapons using the gunnery table suffer a right column shift when firing on a vessel equipped with Advanced Shielding. Lance weaponry firing on this vessel must roll a 5+ to score a hit.

Fleet Defense Turrets: A vessel with Fleet Defense Turrets adds 2 to their turret value. This vessel and one additional vessel within 15cm chosen by the player each turn may reroll dice for any turrets that miss until the end of the turn.

Gyro-stabilized Targeting Matrix: Ship weapons are reduced to 75% instead of 50% when on All Ahead Full, Come To New Heading or Burn Retros special orders. Nova Cannons still may not fire. The ship may reroll 1s while firing its weaponry if it is not on lock-on special orders.

Augmented Weapon Relays: Weapon batteries shift left on the gunnery table. Lance hits count as double
on rolls of a 6.

Proposed Point Costs:
(0-1) Omnissiah’s Victory . . . . . . . . . . . . . 405 Points (Proposed)
Emperor Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 390 Points 
Retribution Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380 Points 
Oberon Battleship . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 380 Points 

Dictator Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 245 Points
Tyrant Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points
Lunar Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points
Gothic Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215 Points
Endeavor Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145 Points
Endurance Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145 Points
Defiant Light Cruiser . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 135 Points

Nova Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 Points
Firestorm Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 Points
Gladius Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40 Points
Sword Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Falchion Frigate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Hunter Destroyer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Points
Cobra Destroyer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Points

Proposed Omnissiah's Victory notes:
"The Omnissiah's Victory cannot use “Come To New Heading” special orders. The profile for The Omnissiah’s Victory already reflects the rules for Adeptus Mechanicus vessels. It is equipped with
Advanced Shields and Augmented Weapon Relays as part of its point cost, and can take no other refits from the Mechanicus Gifts table. You may include the Omnissiah’s Victory in
place of one battleship in the Adeptus Mechanicus fleet if it totals 1000 points or greater. If used, it must be the flagship and embark an Archmagos. The Omnissiah’s Victory cannot take any other refits except those described in the notes for this vessel, though it can earn others normally in a campaign. Only one Omnissiah’s
Victory may ever be used in a fleet that includes Adeptus Mechanicus vessels."

Offline Vaaish

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 986
    • Digital Equinox
Re: BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus
« Reply #149 on: March 06, 2013, 06:40:34 AM »
what's up with the endeavour class prices... 145pts? I'd never touch that outside of a strike cruiser. Why the 20 point boost over the base costs?

-Vaaish