BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus

[afterimagedan]

Current PDF: ++BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus++

It's about time for this thread. Please discuss! We are on the verge of pinning down nova cannon limitations for AdMech when this thread stated.

2:750pts?
1:400pts?

[horizon]

Lets see,
Lunar 180pts

gains:
dorsal 60cm lance
extra repair dice
+1 turret
~ about + 20pts-25pts

worse:
vs hit&run / boarding
~ about -5pts

So we look at a Lunar +180+25-5 = 200pts base cost for the AdMech.
Gift of Omnissiah is something you buy to add.

Issues:
Gifts table is now no longer a d6 roll but something you buy. So the benefit of rolling a 6 for leadership (pick one freely without rolling) is wrong now.
Same applies to Magos entry.
Fix for the Magos/Ld dice 6 = Pays -10pts for Gift.

So weird to have the +1 lance in an entire different paragraph then then +1 turret.

Oh, and I like to see it as this, with all ships:
http://www.twolandscreative.com/wip/docs/BFG%20%5BCodex%5D%20Adeptus%20Mechanicus.pdf
(This also places the rules better)
Made by Brother Argos & Vaaish (with ship pictures provided by me).

[afterimagedan]

I will get to work on those fixes tomorrow. And holy crap, I have never seen that document before. It's stunning!  Should I bring in the pages of the ships from that document and edit them when needed?

[Talos]

Brother horizon knows his AdMech, it seems...so the price for AdMeching a cruiser is a fixed +20pts, light cruiser is +15pts and battleship is +35pts? Personally I would like to see battleship price descreased to +30pts, but I will not fight it kicking and screaming.

[AndrewChristlieb]

All ships receive a leadership boost and a negative to hit and runs and boarding actions.

All capitol ships receive +1 turret and +1D6 to repair. They also force the Admech player to take an additional sub plot.

Cruisers get an additional dorsal lance.

Escorts receive no additional bonuses.

In standard games these are the only free modifiers over IN ships I see.

Clearly Cruisers receive the largest benifit, light cruisers and battleships very little and escorts basically none.

The leadership boost I dont know if I could really put a point value on, it makes the ships better but how much is really hit and miss. The boarding modifier, hit and run modifier, and Sub plot rules both suffer from the same problem.

I would call these a wash.

So the bonuses are:
Escort: none
Light Cruiser: +1 Turret +1D6 to repair
Cruiser: +1 Turret +1D6 to repair +1 Lance
Battleship: +1 Turret +1D6 to repair

And the proposed changes in cost are:
Escort: -
Light cruiser: +15 pts (Im ok with this)
Cruiser: +20 points  I would think this should be +25pts.
Battleship: +20 points (Im not sure where the +35 came from?) this is fairly reasonable as it can be assumed that that extra turret will go a lot further on these ships but thats still kinda of subjective :/.

[afterimagedan]

And the proposed changes in cost are:
Escort: -
Light cruiser: +15 pts
Cruiser: +20/25 points  I would think this should be +25pts.
Battleship: +20 points

I think 25pts is a better option than 20pts. Smotherman makes the improvements of the turret and lance out to be 22.7pts and that's without the repair die.

[ThaneAquilon]

Another option is keep the restricitons and stats for Novas for Admech the same as IN, and make it a 10-15 point upgrade. The increaed cost of the ships themselves will keep the actual number down (for reasonable players). Or Maybe they hoard sweet tech that lets the field CLs with Nova (super limited). If we take the latter option, we should restrict it havily (1/750 or something like that) and disallow reserving, with the possible exception of Bakka.

[Talos]

@AndrewChristlieb I took that 35pts from the books; if an AdMech Emperor is 400pts, that is a 35pt upgrade yes? But I also believe that the value is too high, so 25pts seems about right.

Also, it would be cool to have some custom escorts for AdMech. Been talking to Evil and Chaos, and it seems he is considering making armed versions of the escorts he is selling, which have a very AdMech cruiser inspired prow and shape. Something to consider for the rules revision?

@ThaneAquilon I have suggested the CL with NC in the past and been branded a heretic. You have been warned...

[ThaneAquilon]

Ahh, you suggested it for IN, I'm suggesting for admech only, wih the hyper-specialised premise, I'm praying to the emperor that that will be my saving grace;p also that CLs are more expensive for admech.

[horizon]

I rather see AdMech NC / IN NC follow the same route.
However, AdMech NC previously had NC for every vessel optional where as IN had this not. With BFG:R (and FAQ2010!) we gave more IN vessels a NC option. Thus an AdMech bonus got minimized.

Give the AdMech shell options. Mwhuahaha.

And no custom escorts imo. Perhaps if only widowmaker upgrade for more available?

[afterimagedan]

Do the AdMech commanders need voting on, in light of the voted changes to IN? Also, what about the Endurance, Endeavor, and Defiants?

[afterimagedan]

We are almost done with Tau and Chaos at this point and Admech is next up! So, horizon, can I take and edit the admech document you posted for the admech BFG:R document?

[afterimagedan]

I have been given permission by the makers of this fine document:

http://www.twolandscreative.com/wip/docs/BFG%20%5BCodex%5D%20Adeptus%20Mechanicus.pdf

...and they have given me permission to use the pages from this book to make the BFG:R book, mainly with their flashy and studly looks.  Anyone have some thoughts on what we need to do to the current Admech list before we finalize it?

[afterimagedan]

ok, so:

+15 Light Cruiser
+20 Cruiser
+25 Battleship

Sound good? I am starting on integrating the new pages into the document.

[Duke]

Argh, somehow a login was forced as I clicked preview. I'm tired, but I'll recap:

The Ark mechanicus, stripped of its two included gifts (totaling 45pts), sits at 345 in your current edition, and that's including the +1d6 repair. An Emperor is 365, and a Retribution is 355. They add +25 to become mechanicus, and must add 5-30 points for a mandatory upgrade. Admiteddly the ark must take a Veneratus, but so can the Empy and Ret. Is this something you figured out with smotherman; is the Ark that cheap for its stats? Is it by design that the other two battleships will always prove more expensive? I figured the Ark would like to remain the rare kingpin.

Anyways, though after researching into many old threads I may not understand all of the BFG:R reasoning (ex:tyrant pricing), I respect the work you have put in. Afterimagedan especially has been very consistent in pushing for the goal. If I appear to not have a clue about any of this, please assume I don't and fill me in! 

Cheers,
Duke