BFG:R Adeptus Mechanicus

[AndrewChristlieb]

+1 turret, +1 die for repairs, + leadership, +gift. Sounds about right to me, +/- 5 pts.

[Vaaish]

It's too high for a cl.... The base ad mech list has it far cheaper and practically all of the other ships in the list have stayed the same price or been reduced. I'd never touch a cl like that at 145 too expensive and too easily taken out.

[afterimagedan]

Vaaish? Suggestion?

[Vaaish]

Put them back to the FAQ2010 prices of 125 for the endeavour and endurance for starters since all of the other ships are basically back at the default prices.

If that proves too low bump it by 5 points to 130.

[afterimagedan]

So, +1 from what the IN version is now?

+1 turret, +1 die for repairs, + leadership, +gift. Sounds about right to me, +/- 5 pts.

As far as this goes, the turret will get as much use on the CLs as regular cruisers. +5. Die repairs? Slightly useful. +1 leadership? Useful. Gift? Useful but many are less so compared to their uses on larger vessels. There is a threshold where point values per durability of ship makes the upgrades less expensive. Their usefulness may still be there, but the fact that it is easier to stop that upgrade from functioning (because of how fragile the CLs are), they should be considered less point-wise than on the regular cruisers.

For me, I would consider +15. It's hard to consider +10 because of how much they get from being admech instead IN.

[Talos]

Lower than +15pts makes playing IN seem pointless. You are getting a lot of bang for your buck, and some of the CL can match a cruiser on a broadside, if only by concentrating all their weapons.

[Vaaish]

Well the faq2010 prices puts the endeavor about 15 points over the in cost of 110 so unless BFGR put them up higher than that (not sure why it would) 125 points would be about right.

[Talos]

The BFG:R endeavour is currently at 125pts. Are you suggesting that it should be equally costed to the IN version? At +15pts, we have a 140pts endeavour. That 15pts just bought:

-A lance
-A repair die
- +1 Leadership
-Gift, which are all worth 15pts or more INDIVIDUALLY. FDT gives +2 turret, and ship regularly pay 5-10pts for that upgrade.

So far, since we have not dropped randomized upgrades, we basically just went full circle and AdMech will be still composed of small quanities of high firepower low durability ships. All we have really changed is made them slightly more resilient (with some gifts) and even more dangerous on the offense (due to other gifts). As it stands the upgrades already make them very aggressively priced, and reducing it even more sounds insane. We want to make AdMech as competitive as possible, and although we have chosen the casual option we should still endeavour (hehe ) to make it as viable as the other fleets.

[Vaaish]

Why on earth is the BFGR endeavor 125 points? I can't see any reason for it to cost more than the armada points. Anyway, I think 125 is a good point value for the admech endeavor. It still goes down like any other cl and doesn't have any of the benefits of a strike cruiser for the same points if you put the admech ones at 145 points.

[Talos]

The BFG:R version has built in 90 degree turn with a 6+ prow, which made it significantly more resilient. You should track down the thread and give it a look

Since that's all said and done, the AdMech version has to cost more than the IN version. Also, at 140pts, the AdMech endeavour is not so much worse than the strike cruiser than you seem to imply. The strike cruiser has better armor and ordnance, but less firepower.

[afterimagedan]

It seems like this Endeavor discussion is something we should have before we go into voting to accept the change list for Admech. Any other things people can think of that need to be talked about before the huge list of changes on page 10 are voted on?

[Vaaish]

The BFG:R version has built in 90 degree turn with a 6+ prow, which made it significantly more resilient. You should track down the thread and give it a look

So giving the endeavor a 6+ prow puts it on parity with a SC that is 6+ all around with the same turns? The SC also gets thunderhawks and BC. The BC alone practically put it on parity with the endeavor and the AC far out do the torps on the endeavor. How about the additional 5cm speed the SC has? Remember, the SC was long considered underpowered for its cost under the Armada rules.

I don't think even the admech bonuses can make it worth 145

[Talos]

@ Vaaish Really confused as to where you keep pulling 145pts from. 125 + 15 has always equaled 140, at least here in canada...

AWR FP 8 Battery + Lance is more dangerous than 3 bombardment cannon and a pitiful 3 bombardment and 4 battery, particularly at 16-30cm. The SC is 6+ all around but the endeavour has superior turrets. The speed increase is notable thing, but that's part of why the SC is more expensive now isn't it?

You just can't have a massively upgraded endeavour be priced the same as an un-upgraded one. That's ridiculous, since it's clearly a lot better than the basic pattern.

[horizon]

Compendium AdMech Endeavour = 125pts
FAQ 2010 Endeavour = 110 points, that is with 90*. A 6+ prow can be taken but turn is decreased.

So, here we pay +15pts AdMech.

Now, BFG:R gave Endeavour the prow 6+ AND 90* at the same time for 125pts.

So, ya, 125+15 = 140pts.

Then again, didn't we agree the AdMech bonus was more like 10 points for light cruisers?

[AndrewChristlieb]

Yup, admech bonus was 10 for light cruisers but that doesnt count the gift and 10 points is seriously under costing them. 125+20=145 here idk where 15 came from.