BFG:R Tau Empire

[horizon]

I used the same, lol.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I hate to quote sig but smothermans pretty bad... The Custodian feels underpriced theres no doubt about that, then again so does the Explorer but I dont often hear people complain (too much ) about that turd.

[afterimagedan]

Of course, if you just use smotherman and don't consider the context, it doesn't work well at all. It does help give a good ballpark and then you have to use your best judgment on top of that and consider the special rules of the fleet.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Of course, if you just use smotherman and don't consider the context, it doesn't work well at all. It does help give a good ballpark and then you have to use your best judgment on top of that and consider the special rules of the fleet.

Yup

[horizon]

Yup,
that's why I derived some things without smothy.

Best thing is: look at existing values within a fleet you are measuring. Cross reference. eyeball smotherman, playtest.

On Custodian: cross reference: Emperor battleship.
-35pts

* -10wb/rg
* lesser range on all wb/rg
* +2 ic
* -2lb
* -2 hits
* -1 turret
* -1 shield
* -1Ld (emperor has +1)
* +8 missiles
* +prow deflector
* +tracking
* +5cm speed

Is this 35pts?

[Talos]

@horizon uh...your comparison seems to be forgetting the 8 strength tau torpedoes...which, as far as I know, are worth at least as much as IN torpedoes, and probably more to be fair. Those are worth a fair amount I would say.

Okay, I get what you are saying with smothy. As for custodian, I always thought it was really freakin' good for its price, but not overpowered.

[horizon]

Ah yeah. Plus I forgot the Emperor Ld bonus.

And yes, it is good but not overpowered. 10 hits/3shields is as good as a grand cruiser and not a battleship. 8 hits in one turn is crippled, Emperor is 10 hits.

[afterimagedan]

Ok, we found some common ground on the Custodian. What about the Messenger? Also, are we keeping the Hero where it is?

[Bessemer]

I have no real problem with the Hero as is, it's just a shame that anyone forking out for one of these things now gets less powerful ship, but the BFG:R stats fit the fluff better (damn you GW ). I'm lucky I got mine cheap off Ebay.

Afterimagedan's proposed changes to the messenger are good too, or a drop to 40 as is.

Don't want to be picky, but during the conversation above about the Custodian, people mentioned a boarding penalty...Ko'or'vesh ships don't get a penalty for boarding...or is that not being carried through to BFG:R?

[AndrewChristlieb]

For the record Im ok with Matt Warding the Hero fluff and keeping it as a badarse better than a Lunar full line cruiser also.

[ThaneAquilon]

@Andrew I am as well, but I think we are a minority

@Bessemer They don't get the half strength thing but they do get a penalty in that they can't do it at all. they only get to roll at full strength defensively.

[horizon]

Hero should not be better then Lunar.
Current BFG: profile = good.


Castellan: did everyone agree on lowering its cost to 45?
Protector: did everyone agree on lowering its cost to 180?

[Talos]

@bessemer + ThaneAquilon Actually Tau can't conduct H&R, but Kor'Or"Vesh vessels have full boarding value and can board however and whenever they please, as far as the faq 2010 goes anyhow. I think the H&R is what horizon was alluding too.

We did mess around a bit with the tyrant's fluff, and no one found that offensive, so keeping the hero powerful is not an issue...but even smotherman puts it at 217.5, minus the difference between armored prow/deflector and half boarding rules (-5pts each I would assume)...so I would be okay with the full strength Hero at 200-210pts. Or we can stick with our voting and established fluff and just cut two lances, making it a more versatile but less line ship-y than the lunar.

@horizon My smotherman document doesn't have rules for tau torpedoes/launch bays...are these priced the same as imperials? In my mind they should probably be slightly more expensive (4-4.5pts per torpedo and 14-15 a lb). 

[Bessemer]

@Talos-I thought that was how it worked, hell, in the Compendium it mentions a squadron of Emissary's boarding and taking a battleship

Also, I too would rather have the Hero's original profile, even at 200pts (May have already said this somewhere...) if only for the reason above. Although I realise many people won't let this go, and even in it's BFG:R stats it's a decent ship.

@Horizon- I think I've already agreed with you on those, if not, I do now (if only for the record )

[ThaneAquilon]

I do not wish to reopen the Hero discussion, I was simply agreeing with Andrew. I am fine with the BFG:R Stats we decided on.