BFG:R Tau Empire

[afterimagedan]

Hmm, you are right. I forget the Custodian has a tracker in it too.

The only reason I can see that makes the Messenger useful is to stick it in a squadron of other escorts, Castellans or Defenders, and keep it at the back. But yes, knowing that it cannot benefit a Custodian, this brings it's usefulness down a ways.

Personally, at bare minimum, I think its WBs should be brought out to 45cm. The point cost is something that could use some reworking also.

[ThaneAquilon]

It can't benefit the denfender either, I believe it's batteries are also 30 (I coule be wrong, though). I understand how to use it with escorts, and long ranged vessels (though it becomes hideously vulnerable when paired with cruisers), I just think it should have more firepower to make it a reasonable addition to an escort squadron (like even just str 2 45cm batteries. I would like to see more than that, alike a lance or a torpedo or something, but) OR a points reduction.

[afterimagedan]

It can't benefit the denfender either, I believe it's batteries are also 30 (I coule be wrong, though). I understand how to use it with escorts, and long ranged vessels (though it becomes hideously vulnerable when paired with cruisers), I just think it should have more firepower to make it a reasonable addition to an escort squadron (like even just str 2 45cm batteries. I would like to see more than that, alike a lance or a torpedo or something, but) OR a points reduction.

I would like to work with making it 2wbs at 45cm and find the proper pts cost. That way, it can play a role in escort squads and benefit from its own tracking rule. Plus, I think the Defender profile is still being discussed.

[ThaneAquilon]

I would be fine with that change, it still isn't awesome, combat-wise, but it feels like an actual support vessel instead of a crappy transport that you have to escort.

Also for the defender, I thought all we were changing were the hits, if the discussion is still ongoing, I will gladly join in.

[afterimagedan]

Well, I just remember people debating the armament. I am not sure where people are on that one. The 2 hit thing is implemented.

[ThaneAquilon]

They (we) wanted to make it 4 WB. That decision seemed fairly unanimus (though not 100%m if I remember correctly) and there was some debate as to dropping the Torps to 1 (I was against this) and discussion on whether it should be at 45 or 50 pts, pending how we decided about the armaments. I don't really know what the outcome of that discussion was, I believe it died off in the face of a nearly completed IN document.

[horizon]

Messengers are really usefull in slow moving SG fleet. Add it to the Merchant-Hero-Explorer core and your 45cm gunnery line becomes impressive.

In the Tau fleet its role is taken by the Custodian.

Two very different ships. I could see a Messenger having 2 railguns, but that's it.

//
Defender: to change its role and give the Castellan more purpose the slow heavy brawler approach is what I like. 4railguns + 1 torp. Truly defensive thing.

 

[ThaneAquilon]

My biggest problem there is that 1wb does not equate to 1 torp. the other thing is with only 4 wb at 30 and 1 single torpedo, it won't really be able to initiate any kind of preventative strikes. If it had str 2 torp it could potentially be used to deter attack.

[horizon]

But you are getting 2hits.

1torp is more useful then you think. The same reason the Falchion is a good vessel.

[ThaneAquilon]

Originally the second hit was proposed with no modification to pt cost, as the Defender was not a very good ship otherwise.

I was under the imprssion that IN players thought the Falchion was pretty, well not the best

[horizon]

Bad IN players.

[ThaneAquilon]

Haha well alright.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Falchion is ok, not great but ok.

Dont forget that a squadron of messengers can cover a huge area AND be better protected by doing so. Even just three can be spread over 45cm and by keeping them at the limit of squadron cohesion will limit the enemys ability to wipe them out, saving vps and making them a less attractive target.

[afterimagedan]

I would like to propose to make the Messenger with 2 45cm wbs at its current cost.

[Bessemer]

That would be a good improvement. As is, I reckon it's more 40pts if only for the TS, hell I'd even go as low as 35!