BFG:R Tau Empire

[afterimagedan]

Tau deserves their own thread too!! Anyways, I think the tau list is looking pretty close but it would be good to get some of the details out of the way to call it "finished."  So... what about this commander named character guy?

[horizon]

Keep the character. Like him.

I don't use named characters anyway as I design my own background stories.

From other thread:
Protector 180pts
Castellan 45pts

What I like:
Emissary 130pts
prow deflector 6+ / 5+ armour

speed 25cm
turns 90*

shields 1
hits 4
turrets 2

prow railguns @ 45cm - str 2 - F
prow railguns @ 45cm - str 2 - F
prow railguns @ 45cm - str 2 - F
dorsal launch bay (barracuda)
prow gravitic missiles 20-40cm - str3

may replace port/starboard railguns with grav hooks
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-aXA8fc5AQ8aTlYYWtnNkpEazg


Wait on Sig for Demiurg. Really. What does everyone think about commerce variant?

[Talos]

The Skilled Pilots quality thing is actually the just the refit from the campaign chart. Seems worth more than 5 points in my book however. How much do the eldar pay smotherman style for their ordnance increase? Because your basically tacking on eldar rules to tau rules, making the manta hands down make a thunderhawk annihilator look like a crappy bomber 9/10. I think he's pretty cool, but that ability is probably worth more like +20 points or so.

As for Demiurg, particularily the cruisers, suffer from a real lack of firepower in a given direction. And that's without counting the VP rules, which are possibly the stupidest things I have ever read, baring certain high school yearbook quotes.

[ThaneAquilon]

Are you suggesting that as an additional varient? I primarily use the lance one, without deflector, so keeping the various options (and keeping them as options) is something I'd like to see. The defender needs to change. longer range, more hits, something to make in not an inferior Castellan, same thing with the orca, though to a much lesser degree. Protector has to keep the ability to have bombers. I would also suggest -5 or -10 pts on the Hero, given that we cut so much firepower. What is going on with the messenger? it's just a free 50 points to the enemy. And the Merchant. The other half of weakening the Hero is powering up the Merchant, to make it viable as a warship, and not just a transport (though it is a frigging great transport...). Keep the original profile if you want to use it as a transport though.

Why Prow, forward only railguns three times? Not 2 F/L, 2 R/L, 2F? or simply 6F?

I was going to suggest +5 or 10pts or so for the leader, as skilled pilot can only affect a max of 6 bays in the game.

[Talos]

In a campaign, that refit would only target one ships too, but on a custodian it would cost 35pts.
I 100% agree with messenger and merchant.
If Hero got cost cut, it would be about 5 points max. Still don't see need personally, but open world buddy.
As for emmisary, I presume that is what horizon meant.
There has been lots of talk in support of multiple hit escorts, and common consensus seems that the defender is one of them, which along with a point bump upward would make it quite a viable alternative to the castellan.
Protector should have bombers, IMO. Tau shoudln't have to depend on the custodian for bombing runs.

[ThaneAquilon]

Defender, I don't think the cost shoudl be modified, or max by 5 points. even with two hits, its solid, but not amazing.

On the custodian it would be 33 points (Head bob, dick smile)

The Hero is significantly weaker than it was, but it's the same price? That makes no sense. It'd be like shaving the lances on a gothic, but not changing the cost. Removing the nova from a dominator, torpedoes from a dictator etc.

[Talos]

Don't point costs get rounded up? Or is BFG a dick like that (shakes head)?

Examples are a bit extreme no? It still fires about on par with a lunar plus has launch bays.

Could be wrong, but I think a gothic without lances is worth like 100pts or so?
Dominator is like 150pts probably, Dictator like 170pts.

Defender at 50pts is probably fine:
Defender = +1 hit point, +1 WB
Castellan = higher speed, longer ranged batteries, better turns

The extra hit is obviously worth more and the range is probably slighly worse than the extra battery most of the time. Speed is no strictly advantageous to a long range heavy destoyer so doesn't affect that much. 45 castellan 50 buffed up defender is my vote.

[ThaneAquilon]

They probably do, I was just bein an a**hole

On one side, but then the lunar has that, again, on the other side. And saying that it can't bring it all on one target is not a counter-argument, it has them, the hero does not.

I said shave, not remove. Just take away 1-2 str each side.

Also as an aide, a weaponless gothic is worth the same as a merchant, that's saying somehting.

I agree with the escorts.

[Bessemer]

Agree with Horizons points drops on the Protector and the Castellan. And 40pts for the Defender is needed, unless to whole 2 hit thing goes ahead, then 45 may be in order

As for the Messenger, wouldn't 35- 40 points be more fitting? It's not like you can take swarms of them.

The Hero is a damn expensive model and it seem a little unfair on those who've forked out for one to get a weakened profile (and at same price!). How 'bout Making it a Kor'Or'Vesh vessel (ie. not halve boarding mod), Keep the original stats and make it 200pts? That way it fills the Battlecriuser role for the Tau. Fluff-wise, these would be modified vessels given more modern equipment, but then you've got the same ship with 2 rules-sets:s 165-170 for the Hero's altered stats?

[horizon]

No.
Fluff:
Hero<Lunar
thus Hero stats must be weaker then Lunar.
So 180pts for profile as given is good. Plus it is unrestricted.

I will not sign for a Hero stronger then a Lunar. 

Emissary:
the variant I give should be the only option.
It is wysiwyg.
The model has no Ion Cannon, thus it should not have the option.
It has launch bay + missiles thus the stats should have it.
And for me all railguns on all models are F only.

Defender:
make it a heavy brunter.
(2 hits)
5 weapon batteries
1 missiles

Makes the Castellan attack frigate and the Defender a defensive (hey!) frigate.

Merchant as in pdf is good with me.
Messenger is okay to me. I heard people using this thing to great effect.

[Talos]

100% behind horizon on the hero. Fluff FTW mates.
Emissary is interesting proposition (I am horizon, king of kings! Look upon my profiles ye mighty, and despair! For lo they are infinitely superior for they are wysiwyg!) 

I agree with horizon, but the batteries should really be typical tau; 2 port firing L/F, 2 Front and 2 starboard firing R/F; anything else is just not tau enough to satisfy.

How much would a defender cost with 2 hits, 2 more battery but 1 less missile?

Messenger just seems like a very vulnerable 50pts, and the custodian has double the range for tracking system, plus is a lot less fragile.

You are probably the only person in the world horizon who actually likes the merchant as is. Let that sink in for a moment. Forever Alone...

[AndrewChristlieb]

I actually liked the Merchant with 4 hits so 6 is great and 8 is AWESOME. 

The Hero... shouldnt have 45cm range or attack craft. Hard to work around tho.

Messenger is ok, slipping it in with some Castellans will make it a bit less vulnerable if thats what your worried about. If someones targeting this over something else instead of just getting within 30 then o_O.

[horizon]

Hey Talos,

have you noted the Merchant is now (revised) standard 6 hits? And can go to 8 hits. Big difference already for no point increase.
It can bring cheap Orca's (25pts!).
It can upgrade to get some Ion Cannons.

Plus, time ago someone on PortMaw had a Tau fleet based on Merchants supported by Messengers to create a great gunnery line. With the revised cost/stats it become an even better alternative to the AC line.

Defender,
lets go conservative, no 2 hits but weapon upgrade. I'd cost it at 45pts
+2wb - 1 missile evens out but gives more purpose/distinct role.

Messenger,
yeah, mix it into another squadron.

Emisssary,
game of stats
- a clash of variants

[Talos]

Oops...forgot about merchant upgrades.

So...are we not doing 2 hit escorts? Or are we doing 1 hits standard, and then come our rules revision we have a sheet that has what escorts have 2-3 hits and their adjusted cost? Because that would work just fine.

Still don't think the messenger should be so pricy; easiest 50 pts in the game.

I like your emissary; swap the batteries to my suggested array (3 way split, with broadsides or wothlessness) and you have my vote.

[horizon]

As for the batteries, the f/l & r/f won't matter strenghtwise. If people want it, alas.