BFG:R Imperial Navy

[afterimagedan]

Two things:
1) In the current rules, BF Cadia has to pick the worst of two leadership rolls just to have the option of getting captains; there should be no such penalty and the captain should be available to all fleets. If we keep the penalty, we should allow BFC to get the captains at a reduced price, or even a free one to fit with the established fluff and make the overall leadership penalty worthwhile.

2) We are making the reroll an option instead of being forced to take it.

So basically, you can buy a veteran captain and it adds +1ld to a ship after you roll LD values and make squads but it does not come with a RR. Right?

[Talos]

That's what I have gathered so far.

[afterimagedan]

Ok, then how much do you think we should price it at, knowing you can put the VC on a ship after LD is rolled? And I'm assuming 25pts for 0-1 RR for him?

[AndrewChristlieb]

Yup, 25 pts for a reroll, max of one. And that would make the captian 25 points. Or you could do the captian at 30 and the reroll at 20 or any combo really so ling as the total for both doesnt go over 50, otherwise its not worth the cost.

[horizon]

But with this cheap Ld boost or re-roll boost, who wouldn't load on to them?
Will there be a restriction?

[afterimagedan]

30/20 seems appropriate.

[ThaneAquilon]

In Plaxor's BFG:R, The Eldar (Corsair variety) Have Gryphon Knight sub commanders, which give +1Ld for 25pts. I can't remember if they get rerolls or not...

[horizon]

Eldar MMS 1.9b:

Corsair Eldar
0-3 Gryphon Knight  .. 25pts
Ships led by Gryphon Knights may attempt a command check even if one has been
failed this turn.

Craftworld Eldar
0-3 Farseer .. 15pts
Furthermore you may include three extra Farseers, purchased at 15 points, in your fleet, each whom must be assigned to a ship and gives their vessel a re-roll which may be used on this ship only. A Farseer may be placed aboard a Ghostship.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Veteran captian would in my mind be 0-5 25 pts, may purchase a reroll for 25 pts. They must lead a squadron and their reroll may only be used for their ship or squadron.

[Bessemer]

Sounds good. That's essencialy the same Chaos Lords right? Only they don't need to be assigned to squads. The limit of 5 seems a little high. I know the leadership for the Cadian list could put you a disadvantage, so a limit of 5 suited them, Otherwise 3 would be good number, brings it level with the Chaos lords.

[afterimagedan]

I just think we need to be more clear about what we are trying to accomplish. If we are trying to basically have a Chaos Lord variant for IN, then let's make that. If we are trying to have a specific character type for those who are playing Battlefleet Cadia, let's do that. Or, we can do both.

1. Personally, if we make a Chaos Lord variant for IN, it should be allowed in each fleet. Every Chaos fleet has a Chaos Lord choice but none of the IN fleets have secondary characters.

2. I would like to see Battlefleet Cadia be somewhat usable. At this point, it's a terrible option. The fact that your entire fleet has to roll 2 dice and pick the lowest for LD is atrocious. Yes, they can pick Veteran Captains, but I don't think that makes up for the downside. Even at 25pts, I don't think it's worth going with BFC.

[ThaneAquilon]

Well, I would like to see every fleet get some form of Chaos lord option (weather Gryphon knights or whatever flavor) with the possible exception of Tau, who have a weirdly costed command structure. For all these fleets, including Chaos, I'd also say that to put the leader in a squadron should be a choice, representing bringing in an outside commander, highly lauded with his own ship, to whom a squad is assigned, if you so wish. (Example could be a Thousand sons fleet bringing in an Emperor's children carrier that is Marked, without other Children ships. The captain of that ship could be a celebrated Chaos Lord)

[Bessemer]

It is a little strange that some lists get a secondary commander wile others don't so adding veteran captains (Lord captains?) does redress that.

Rather than rolling Ld for Cadia as is, would saying that ships with Ld 6-7 MUST Form squadron with another ship of higher Ld, whenever possible. But then, don't most people do this anyway? Know I do.

As for Tau, they have Kor'el and Kor'O, why not have Kor'Vre? Has the Air cast leadership structure ever been described more fully in any of the Rogue Trader books?

[ThaneAquilon]

Tau are mostly in Deathwatch, I believe. But in the Tau Codex it explains pretty clearly the basic structure as being pretty similar to the Shas.

As I said, I think every list, every race should get sub-commanders of some kind.

[Bessemer]

Seconded.