BFG:R Vote 3: Dark Eldar

[afterimagedan]

So now that we are winding down on chaos and tau, the next two are admech and dark Eldar.

What sort of changes do we need to finish up here?

-Voidraven upgrade for 40pts seems excessive. Do voidravens fire plasma torpedoes or just regular imperial type?

-Why the 6 cruiser limit? Seems a bit low.

-do the defenses need to be in there? Its kind of nice to have, IMO.

[horizon]

This is from the Dark Eldar house rules I once published, not wrote:
http://the-first-magelord.deviantart.com/art/Dark-Eldar-Wych-81837904

art from Magelord, specifically made for the DE rules. Use it if you dare.

[afterimagedan]

Any thoughts?

We have play tested the current BFGR dark Eldar and it has been great. The 2 hit escorts have been a blast to play. Also, the mortalis is a really nice addition.

[Khar]

I've tested BFG:R DE several times now and they seem to work well enough. One thing bugs me, though: Why does Succubus get 3 lances, while Torture gets only 2? I've tried using lance Tortures and they usually underperform in comparison to their lighter counterpart. So in my oppinion, either -1 lance on Succubus [while making this variant cheaper] or change lance Torture to 3 str, 250 pts variant.

On smaller scale, same problem with torpedo variant: same strength on both. It makes launch bay/impaler variants more attractive than other two, I think...

Also, launch bay Mortalis - other variants are stronger than respective Torture, this one is the same. Unless you're hard pressed for both ordnance and capital ships, extra carrier Torture was usually superior option for me.

All minor points, though, fleet seems to perform quite well.

[afterimagedan]

Khar, those are great observations. I think the Succubus is a typo. I actually think I may have talked to Plaxor about that at one point. I will update the document and you are right about the price; it should be 140pts.

About Torpedoes, I think it makes sense. The Torture with torpedoes is on the cheaper end of things, the Succubus with torpedoes is on the more expensive end of things. I am not entirely against giving the Succubus 3 torpedoes at a cheaper price.

For the Mortalis, they should all be at 300. This makes up for no increase in launch capacity compared to the torture version. combined with the increased price for the carrier torture and the not increased price for the carrier mortalis, I think it works.  he torpedo variant should have 6 torpedoes. This evens them all to 300pts.

[afterimagedan]

Oh yeah, the other crappy part we ran into when playtesting is the roll twice for H&Rs and pick the result. This took forever when we hit a ship with 8 assault boats. We basically changed it to +1 to H&Rs for the rest of the game and that actually worked well.

[Khar]

I kind of agree on that one. Rolling twice mechanic seems nice until you have to do it 8 times in single strike. +1 might be a bit stronger overall, but is surely simpler.

Mortalis for 300 points in all variants [with 6 torpedos] seems like a good idea, too.

If succubus would have 2 lances for 140, I'd leave 4 torpedo variant as it is.  3 torpedos, even at lower cost, would be inferior option to 2 lances in nearly every case.

I'm not sure about Impaler Succubus, too. With single Impaler it's armed only a little bit stronger than a Corsair while being worth more than a double price. 2 Impaler corsairs have roughly the same resilience [same hits, more shields, less armour], more weapons [2 less batteries, one more impaler] and cost less. Also, they allow you to get more capital ships, while Succubus eats valuable slot.

So I'd give Succubus 2 impalers (for 150?).

And as I'm already in analysing Succubus mode, what's left is a carrier version: Other fleets show that light carriers tend not to work. And I don't know who in their right mind would waste DE capital ship slot on 2 launch bay light cruiser. This thing might need work. Or remove variant altogether as it doesn't seem to perform any function now?

Removing it would also make its weapon loadouts look nicely compared to the torture: half the batteries and full strength on secondary system in every variant.

[horizon]

I need to paint my DE so I can finally add more then naughty images.

[afterimagedan]

I'm not sure about Impaler Succubus, too. With single Impaler it's armed only a little bit stronger than a Corsair while being worth more than a double price. 2 Impaler corsairs have roughly the same resilience [same hits, more shields, less armour], more weapons [2 less batteries, one more impaler] and cost less. Also, they allow you to get more capital ships, while Succubus eats valuable slot.

So I'd give Succubus 2 impalers (for 150?).
Could you rephrase this? I don't get what you mean.

And as I'm already in analysing Succubus mode, what's left is a carrier version: Other fleets show that light carriers tend not to work. And I don't know who in their right mind would waste DE capital ship slot on 2 launch bay light cruiser. This thing might need work. Or remove variant altogether as it doesn't seem to perform any function now?
Light carriers do work well in squadrons and in smaller games, especially with elite launch craft like dark Eldar. I think it would be good to make it work.
Removing it would also make its weapon loadouts look nicely compared to the torture: half the batteries and full strength on secondary system in every variant.

I will look into this some more and get back.

[afterimagedan]

Also, the original Dark Eldar have +1 to H&Rs. I think that would be OK. The last huge game we player with dark Eldar, the reroll hit and tuns got so annoying, we went back to the original +1 instead. We then remembered that that was the original way all along.

[Khar]

Could you rephrase this? I don't get what you mean.

What I meant was Baleful Gaze pattern of Succubus should, In my oppinion have str2 Impaler bay instead of str1 and cost 150 points, not 140.

With single Impaler it's not really worth wasting cruiser slot on, as pair of Impaler Corsairs would do its job better. At least that's what my testing showed.

[afterimagedan]

I agree. I also think we should get rid of the cruiser and light cruiser caps. All that does is not allow you to play very large games.

[Khar]

One more thing I've been thinking about:

If we look at the fluff, Dark Eldar vs Craftworlders conflicts almost never occur. Not on large scale, anyway. Temporary alliance, on the other hand, seems to be quite common. It makes sens, really: You'd probably prefer to ally with your weird cousin than a mindless animal [as in, rest of the factions]. Also, they're listed as battle brothers when it comes to allying in 40k rulebook.

What I'm trying to say: Could we consider, just to get rid of this stupid 'they are high and dark elves so they hate each other more than anything' school of thought, letting Dark Eldar and Eldar fleets use each other's ships as some sort of limited reserve? It shouldn't break anythig and would be nice fluff addition.

[horizon]

I wouldn't mind such alliances. Player should bring good fluff with him though.

[afterimagedan]

Huh, its hard for me to see that happening Khar, but we can talk about it more. It feels so wrong to me...   

Anyways, I've edited the document with the proposed changes and moved then defenses to the defenses document. How would you guys write the resembles section?