The deal with Battleships

[horizon]

Actually, community and Oberon = BFG:R (oH Paxor, when do we get THAT pdf? )

355pts, all weaponry at 60cm.
= voted upon by community 

[AndrewChristlieb]

BFG-R is an improvement, its still compeating with the Emperor for a support role tho and in that capacity the extra launch of the Emperor will win out with most players (and has so far as i have seen). Not to mention there are better ways to snag 60cm lances if thats what your needing.

An Oberon as i described would have to be pretty pricy. It would have nearly the same off side fire power as a Retribution at 45cm and the torp/launch synergy. Probably about the same as an Emperor and playtest it out from there. This would put it up against the Retribution instead of the Emperor and seems pretty comparable in usefulness to the BFG-R Ret.

[horizon]

You need to assess the Oberon on its own. In its role it was a vessel that did very long range patrols on its own. Its mixed weaponry is a given then plus torpedoes difficult to maintain on an extended duty, thus batteries being more cost effective.

[AndrewChristlieb]

True, but game play doesnt represent the fluff :/. Now if there was a maximum of one per list and no other restrictions, that would represent its fluff and make it a much more attractive choice as is.

[horizon]

It is still a good choice.

With an Emperor your cruisers will be more gunnery and no other carrier is needed.
With an Apocalypse or Retribution your cruisers will feature more carriers (at least 2 in most cases).
With an Oberon you can have a more varied cruiser list, eg Mars, Dictator or Excorcist (very good company!).

An all 60cm range Oberon 10pts less then an Emperor is a great alternative imo.

[fracas]

It is still a good choice.

With an Emperor your cruisers will be more gunnery and no other carrier is needed.
With an Apocalypse or Retribution your cruisers will feature more carriers (at least 2 in most cases).
With an Oberon you can have a more varied cruiser list, eg Mars, Dictator or Excorcist (very good company!).

An all 60cm range Oberon 10pts less then an Emperor is a great alternative imo.

yes you can build your fleet around your intended battleship
but this might restrict you in smaller games when you are not taking the battleship

i'd suggests building a take all comer fleet without the battleship
then add the battleship for flavor to emphasize either gunnery or launch bays ... or both

[AndrewChristlieb]

yes you can build your fleet around your intended battleship
but this might restrict you in smaller games when you are not taking the battleship

i'd suggests building a take all comer fleet without the battleship
then add the battleship for flavor to emphasize either gunnery or launch bays ... or both

This is how i usually go about doing a campaign list. Building so that i know what i will have for a 500, 750, 1k, 1.5k and then using the extra for subsitutes. Im not such a big fan of battleships but if i were to take one it would probably be to sub out for some other ships. In a one off game tho i think that knowing the point level would change how i build, if its a 1500 i might take a BB and depending on if i do then it will affect how i build the fleet. If its under 1500 then it depends on what im playing as, Tau for instance should almost always have an Explorer/ Custodian imo.

[horizon]

I build my fleets allround, fluff based and aimed at 1500pts. Battleships are cool focus points for me.

[Ruckdog]

I think I'm pretty much with Horizon on this one; the battleship is pretty much what shapes the make-up of the rest of the fleet, at least when it comes to the IN. The problem I run into is that the IN's cruiser carriers are fairly expensive for what they do, making any BB other than the Emperor a tough choice! As for the point about this causing issues for smaller point games when the BB is not present, the fairly low expense and/or magnetizing options for the IN and Chaos make this less of a concern as I see it.

[AndrewChristlieb]

As fracas said tho it can still be done the other way around, especially if you usually run at 750-1k and only do 1.5k occasionally. For instance a 1k fleet list can look like: Lunar Lunar Dictator Dominion 3x Swords Fleet Admiral. Fairly straight forward with a good mix of weapons, lances, and launch bays. This will allow you to go either launch or ordinance heavy @1.5k by adding say a Retribution and four Firestorms or an Emperor and 4 Falchions (the Dominion would be taken as reserve in this example and the Falchions of course add to the ordinance output). You could go for more of everything too if your so inclined by taking an Oberon an adding a squad of Cobras and a couple more Swords.

Its kind of like going around your elbow to get to your... ahem, anyway the options you get by taking this route can be quite intersting and rather fluffy. Your base fleet will of course affect what you choose to take in larger games the above was just an example of the thought process. This is as i said my preferred method for building a campaign list as i will know what my fleet is at all the common levels.

[fracas]

It has been a while since I fielded an IN, chaos, or eldar BB. So I select them based on the model.
My SG Tau I always take 2 explorers but thus is a core ship IMO.
We play mostly 1000 pts games.
I can see starting with a BB if your standard game is 1500 pts though.
Still IMO it is easier to scale up than scale down.

[Talos]

Not going to lie, I really like the idea of a fleet core composed of an apocalypse supported by 2 nova armageddons, but would this be too focused/too many eggs in a ceramite basket? It seems solid in principle; three nova's closing, along with 9 battery and 4 lance to toss in at 60cm; turn to broadside with 21 battery and 14 lances! It seems kinda like a b BOOM bit**es! moment, but you guys know better than I do...

[horizon]

3 Nova Cannon in 1500pts is fine. No spam to me or broken.

[Talos]

I mean't rather is that many points sunk into only three ships too vulnerable? As in, I have noticed so far a repeating trend, regardless of the fleet: less ships is bad. Regardless of the guality/inferior nature of a given ship, the less targets you present your opponent with, the more punishment each one is going to take. This is one of the reasons eldar are so hard to kill, an it's because the fleet is so diffused that no amount of hammering will cripple the fleet; only individual escorts or squadrons. By contrast, this is part of the reason people seem to hate AdMech; even though their ships are pretty good, they are more expensive than IN but not much tougher, so they tend to get smashed as enemies concentrate fire on them. I'm just concerned that having 875 points of my fleet in 3 targets is just asking for a pounding, which the BB can take but not my cruisers necessarily.

[horizon]

Tell that to someone who does not field a fully loaded Void Dragon in 1500pts (320+150+re-roll). 1/3 in one ship. har har.
Is a noted Barge killer though.