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Author Topic: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition  (Read 27380 times)

Offline horizon

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2012, 06:49:38 AM »
Yes, if in squadron and in base-to-base contact that is possible.

Offline Talos

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #76 on: October 07, 2012, 10:18:37 PM »
How often do people actually do that? Is it a viable tactic most of the time, or so situational as to be only a footnote?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2012, 11:05:37 PM »
I always run CVE's in base contact. Cruisers tho its not such a big deal as their launch capacity is typically sufficient unless your launching with the intention of hitting a high turret value target. I usually split my BB launch into two separate waves also tho.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #78 on: October 07, 2012, 11:50:34 PM »
Don't suppose a homebrew escort with torpedoes and AC is viable then? Even at 40-50pts?

Offline horizon

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2012, 03:20:08 AM »
People will sent the Inquisition for you.

Offline Talos

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #80 on: October 08, 2012, 03:45:46 AM »
That is...actually quite hilarious, horizon. Kudos for hilarity ;D. So i presume no then? That seems quite reasonable, I was just curious. Do you have any good custom escort builds to share, or ideas for one?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2012, 12:20:27 PM »
Ok I found some notes :P.

Sparrowhawk Destroyer...................................45pts 

Type/Hits...Speed....Turns....Shields....Armor....Turrets
Escort/1.....30cm.....90*......1............4+........2           
       
Armament...........Strength.............Range.........Arc         
Weapons Battery......1...................30cm........L/F/R     
Launch Bay.......1 Squadron.........30cm/20cm.....-         


Golden Eagle Frigate.......................................55pts 

Type/Hits...Speed....Turns....Shields....Armor....Turrets
Escort/1.....25cm.....90*......1............5+........3       
       
Armament...........Strength.............Range.........Arc         
Weapons Battery......2...................30cm........L/F/R     
Launch Bay.......1 Squadron.........30cm/20cm.....-

The Sparrowhawk and Golden Eagle escorts are the last of a dying breed of ship designed during the great crusade as an attempt to counter the massive quantities of land based attack craft commonly found defending lost worlds. As the crusade neard its end there was much less call for such ships and as such many were scrapped or put into fleet reserves for use as training vessels. A few of these were converted to carry Starhawk bombers and Fury interceptors and were used to bolster planatary defense forces and as a somewhat effective merchant transport. By the late 41st millennium however even many of these have long been retired in favor of the more durable cruiser based designs coming out of the major forges and fleet bases. Currently no major sector fleets make use of these vessels altho minor sectors may still make use of their unique capabilities and de-militarized versions can still be seen escorting rouge trader fleets and in the planetary defense fleets of hundreds of worlds.

Can be modeled by shaping the edges of chaos launch bays to the prow of Iconoclasts (Sparrowhawk) or Infidels (Golden Eagle) Golden Eagles can also be represented by Escort Carriers (all must be painted in appropriate colors!)


Scutum Frigate..............................................50pts 

Type/Hits...Speed....Turns....Shields....Armor....Turrets
Escort/1.....25cm.....90*......2............5+........2           
       
Armament...........Strength.............Range.........Arc         
Weapons Battery......3...................45cm........L/F/R     

The Scutum class frigate predates the advent of the modern battleship and were designed as a means of introducing void shielding to early Imperial Ironclads by closely escorting them with frigates that would intercept incoming fire. As the newer battleships were developed with their own shield generators the demand for these ships dwindled and with the technology to reproduce their powerful laser batteries becoming more scarce eventually all production was ceased in favor of the newer Sword class with its much simpler design. The majority of these turned traitor and it is believed that this much of this ships technology was replicated for use in the Idolator class raider. Very few are still in Imperial service, those that still are however make very valuable additions to any sector commands escort flotillas.

The Scutum class frigate can be modeled using Idolator raiders with their prow lance replaced with something to represent the additional shield generators.


Scorcher destroyer.........................................30pts 

Type/Hits...Speed....Turns....Shields....Armor....Turrets
Escort/1.....25cm.....90*......1............4+........1           
       
Armament...........Strength.............Range.........Arc         
Weapons battery......1...................30cm........L/F/R     
Lance.....................1...................30cm...........F

The Scorcher was rather uncommon even when they were new. Many attempts had been made to graft a lance onto the smaller destroyer frames in the hopes of creating a ship capable of both high speeds and a powerful punch. The Scorcher was the most successful of these attempts using the Iconoclast hull and power plant Adptus engineers were able to reroute the required energy to power the lance however many of these examples suffered problems with overheating and several were destroyed by the engines detonating. This gave the ship a rather bad name and they were mostly scrapped, the few that survived were placed in fleet reserves or low priority areas and forgotten. The crafty engineers assigned to these ships quickly learned that in order for the ship to sustain the energy required to power the lance and not overload the power plants they would need to come up with a solution. It was determined that by shunting a portion of the ships energy from the engines to the lance they could prevent any overheating, but at the cost of a slower speed somewhat defeating their original purpose but making the ship much more reliable.

Can be modeled by attaching a lance turret to an Iconoclast destroyer.



All of these were intended for use with a back water type fleet, RT fleet, PDF, or as reserves for IN/Choas fleets. Point values have not been play tested and are simply what felt right for the ship.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #82 on: October 09, 2012, 03:40:15 PM »
Really cool designs, are those yours? The scutum and sparrowhawk in particular interest me, going to have to fly them by my group and see what they think.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #83 on: October 09, 2012, 04:41:11 PM »
Ya i came up with these ideas during a descussion about another far flung battlefleet and what would be required to make an all escort force playable. The idea being that more durable escorts and true escort carriers would fill most of the gaps. The Scorcher was an attempt to insert a lance escort as there would be no Firestorms. The fleet list included Havocs (no swords) and Iconoclasts, Copperheads (rt recomissioned escorts), and what you see here for escorts.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #84 on: October 09, 2012, 06:19:05 PM »
Good for you, these are very interesting...although if you look at BFG:R, there is a carrier escort at 45pts identical to the golden eagle frigate, suggesting that it and the sparrowhawk could probably use a price reduction. As for the scutum, really like the idea of mixing it in with other squadrons, keeping it a the front to soak fire like a boss.

Offline Jimmy Zimms

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2012, 03:09:27 AM »
Quote
The Scutum class frigate
You know that reallllllly looks like another word when you first glance at it. Just sayin...  :o
As we Imperials say, "The Emperor [class battleship] Protects..."

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2012, 03:29:52 AM »
Lol indeed, its a type of shield. For the points your correct, the prices i used are untested and aimed at appeasing those that would protest the vessel, i have no idea if the bfgr version was tested.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Talos

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2012, 03:55:19 AM »
Well hopefully I can guinea pig for you, but my only reliable opponents are FW tau and corsairs, so I will let you know how they fare.

Offline horizon

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2012, 06:48:32 AM »
Sparrowhawk -> Golden Eagle
+10 pts for:
4+ to 5+ armour
+1 turret
+1 wb
-5cm speed.

//
6 Sparrowhawks
6 Cobra's (widowmakers)
12 torpedos
6 attack craft

for: 270 + 180pts = 450pts
fast moving -> 30cm
max syngery strike range -> 50cm (bombers + torps)
max anti cap strike -> 60cm (fighters + torps)

Two Dictators:
12 torps/8 ac
440pts
more resilience, slower, less strike range

The escort attack is fragile but if it manages a neglected flank a deathly attack force.
Personally I would place a cap on the vessel.

//
Scutum
Sword class
+1 shield
+15cm range
-1 wb strength
+15pts

Although the point increase per item is feasible the 2 shields is pretty heavy since the escort multiplier exists.
eg If I hit a squadron of standard Swords 5 times:
shield - hit
shield - hit
shield

If I hit Scutum 5 times:
shield-shield-hit
shield-shield

Add in BFI and the longlivety increases a lot. Especially as shields come back a turn later.





Offline Talos

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Re: Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition
« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2012, 03:09:54 PM »
So is the tempest from BFG:R under costed by your standards? It is effectively a sword that trades 2 battery for a launch bay at +10pts. The golden eagle is 10pts more than it despite an identical profile. That's getting awfully close to hellebore price without nearly the versatility or staying power or actual power (mms version). I think the sparrowhawk (off the top of head) should be 40pts,  basically a 10pt jump over a cobra. As for the scutum, there is a place for a resilient escort, and if used in chaos fleet range is not an issue, but 45cm would make it the only IN escort to be able to do so.

@horizon/AndrewChristlieb Since the scutum is suppose to be a defensive tank for ironclad battleships, what if it had only 30cm range? Or even 15cm and 4 firepower at 45pts?