Escorts-Do's and dont's of squadron composition

[Talos]

So,

What's the deal with mixed escort squadrons? As an imperial player, I don't really seem to see the purpose of mixing squadrons. The fact that escorts are in essence already a specialized vessel makes making them more take all comers somewhat wasteful when it's probably better to just grab a separate squadron. Example:

-Swords: Squadroning them with Cobra/viper's or falchions requires reload ordnance and firestorms limit their firing arcs and adds cost without significant firepower.

The only mixed squadron I can see being potentially interesting would be cobra's/falchions, but I don't think any list supports that. What about other races? I know Eldar employ large escort squadrons, often of mixed composition, but anybody else? When and what is worth squadroning, and how do you play squadrons that limit their own utility?

Sincerely,
Talos the perplexed

[horizon]

Hi,

Generally I don't mix squadrons. As you said, all escorts have a specific purpose, so I use them that way.

Okay here and there you can add a lance escort to a weapon battery escort, now I run one mixed squadron: 2 Swords + 1 Firestorm...why? Because that what was in the second hand deal... heh

[Mycen]

As far as your cobra/falchion comment, technically all lists 'support' that - you can simply use the reserves rules to grab a cobra, or vice versa.

[Talos]

@Mycen I mean't more like in larger squadrons (4+) ships, although you have a point. What would be a good squadron composition for a 4 strong squadron? Would three falchions and a viper make a good set? It would have 9 battery (respectable, although not more than 1 or 2 hits in reality) and either 4 markers defensively or a strength  6 offensively (decent too). Although the viper does move faster...

Although that ties in very well into another one of my points/questions. Do people run large squadrons? Everytime I read a list on the forums (other than eldar) people only seem to have 3-4 escort squadrons. Coincidence or science? Are bigger squadrons too big of at target, or just not worth the points? Why are they not run?

[horizon]

There are exceptions in my own lists (eg when I do not have enough points left) but it is always better to run uneven squadrons due victory points and the crippled status of escort squadrons.

I also prefer small squadrons as this will give the opponent more targets to shoot at. As thus it is more difficult to shut down all of my fleet.

[Cneo]

There are exceptions in my own lists (eg when I do not have enough points left) but it is always better to run uneven squadrons due victory points and the crippled status of escort squadrons.

I also prefer small squadrons as this will give the opponent more targets to shoot at. As thus it is more difficult to shut down all of my fleet.

+1

With Space Marines I've played with 7 squadrons, 4 Gladius, 2 Hunters, 1 Novas...it isn't my standard fleet, but I never leave home with less than 4 squadrons for big battles.

The option of 2 Falchion & 1 Firestorm sounds good, maybe I'd test it soon.

 

[Talos]

Hmmmm....interesting points from all of you.

@Cneo...why seven squadrons? Are all those ship in pairs? Or triples? What's their composition and purpose?

Can any of you name mixed squadron from other races that are effective and why?

Also *$%?/! quote tool! Not sure how that thing works, but it's out to get me! How does one quote a single paragraph instead of the whole thing?

[AndrewChristlieb]

I never really got why some people insist on odd number squads, either 3 or 4 in a squad require 2 to be crippled and the cost increase is offset by the power increase. Two groups of three can last a bit longer while a squad of six might do a bit more damage, i swap it out depending on what im using the ships for: torpedoe escorts its almost always 3 battery and lance escorts typically 4-6.

Mixed squads? A battery or two in a lance squadron isnt bad but it doesnt really work the other way around. Dont mix ordinance with non ordinance unless you have some sort of odd restriction (not sure what that might be, fluff based maybe or scenario driven). Some ships do mix better than others tho nova and gladus both have the same arcs and are close enough in speed, hemlock and aconite, savages and onslaughts etc.

[horizon]

Hi Andrew,

if I destroy 2 Firestorms in a 4 strong squadron I gain 25% vps of 160pts = 40pts
if I destroy 2 Firestorms in a 3 strong squadron I gain 25% vps of 120pts = 30pts

Ofcourse the smaller squadron should disengage at that point while the bigger one could be lucky another turn (eg only losing 1 instead of 2).

[horizon]

Also *$%?/! quote tool! Not sure how that thing works, but it's out to get me! How does one quote a single paragraph instead of the whole thing?

Like this?

Well, I quote your post, then remove the text part I don't need.

If I need more parts I add in [/quote) at the end and open a new part with [quote)

replace ) with a ] of course.

[Talos]

What about chaos or nid escorts? Can they mix? Also, although their escorts seem pretty good I have never heard anything about necron escorts. Worthwhile or garbage? And do they mix or stay pure?

[AndrewChristlieb]

Hi Andrew,

if I destroy 2 Firestorms in a 4 strong squadron I gain 25% vps of 160pts = 40pts
if I destroy 2 Firestorms in a 3 strong squadron I gain 25% vps of 120pts = 30pts

Ofcourse the smaller squadron should disengage at that point while the bigger one could be lucky another turn (eg only losing 1 instead of 2).

Right... You get 25% if crippled, got that. What about when you destroy 3 ships? The 4 strong version would give up 30vp the 3 strong version would give up 120vp.

Apply the two examples above to two squadrons of three firestorms (squadrons 1 and 2) vs one squadron of six (squadron 3). First turn you fire and destroy two, squadron 1 is crippled or squadron 3 would be down 2. Beginning of my turn squadron 1 disengages. Second turn you fire and destroy three, squadron 2 is destroyed outright or squadron 6 would be down to one remaining.  My turn squadron 6 disengages.

Victory points= squadron 1: 20vp, squadron 2: 120vp, squadron 3: 50vp. 140 vs 50 for the same number destroyed. The two smaller squads would have an advantage in the case that they would take more damage than is required to destroy the entire large group. For instance if the 2 squadrons of 3 took 18 hits compared to the squadron of 6 one whike group of 3 would be untouched while the group of 6 would likely be destroyed (18-6 for shields -6 for brace saves *assuming only half are made* -6 for unbraced saves). If even one of the six survives to disengage the squadron of six gains the advantage in victory points back.

[fracas]

You get 100% value for each ship destroyed. This include escorts.
You get 25% value for disengaged escort squadron or crippled capital ship
You get 10% value for disengaged capital ship not crippled

P66 BBB

[Cneo]

Hmmmm....interesting points from all of you.

@Cneo...why seven squadrons? Are all those ship in pairs? Or triples? What's their composition and purpose?

I usually group it in triples, sometimes Gladius in quartet.

The Hunters are like Bow Cavalry...they come, launch salves of torpedoes to capital ships and flee to reload.
The Gladii are enemy escorts killers. A 12-16 battery salve is enough to destroy or do heavy damage to enemy squadrons and sometimes crippled capitals or light cruisers.
The Novas have two roles. Hunt enemy escorts like Gladius or finish off crippled enemy capitals. But they're so expensive and I use it few times.

If I have to mix something, I chose Gladius & Novas, they work well together.

My usually escorts squadrons composition for battles between 1000-2000 pts. is:

2x 3-4 Hunter
2x 3-4 Gladius + sometimes 1 Nova (for -1500)
1x 2-3 Nova (for +1500)

 

[AndrewChristlieb]

You get 100% value for each ship destroyed. This include escorts.
You get 25% value for disengaged escort squadron or crippled capital ship
You get 10% value for disengaged capital ship not crippled

P66 BBB

Each destroyed escort earns its value in victory points PROVIDED THE ENTIRE ESCORT SQUADRON IS DESTROYED.

If everyone plays them as vp+ 25% if more than half are destroyed its no wonder no body cares for them.