Teach Me Imperium

[AndrewChristlieb]

The Tyrant/ Armageddon squadroned gives you 16wb@45 and 4 lances, very powerful for their points.

The Gothic/ Falchions as you stated, Falchios to knock down shields and Gothic to carve em up.

Once again tho this is a fluffy fleet, in a competative area it would do ok but licht cruisers/ escorts are pretty weak.

[horizon]

The Tyrant is the least favourite Imperial Cruiser to me.

[ElectricPaladin]

The Tyrant is the least favourite Imperial Cruiser to me.

What don't you like about it?

Also, doesn't a fleet need some escorts? Battleships and cruisers are slow and clumsy. Escorts can block lines of attack, soak up enemy fire, take down shields, and generally help the battleships to be effective. Isn't that the point?

[horizon]

To me every fleet needs escorts. And with 4 Falchions/3 Firestorms you have a good amount.

I dislike the Tyrant because it must have the range upgrade otherwise its 45cm range is futile.
The rest of the cruisers is 30cm ranged so having all cruisers at 30cm has benefits. And at that level the Dominator is just plain better as a battery broadsword.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Yup thats the point, they usually dont work out too well tho :/. Cruisers and battleships are not slow and clumsy enough. Escorts are too weak to really run interferance and they dont screen ordinance nearly well enough. When you get down to brass tacks escorts usually go poof unless you keep them in the back and only use them sparingly. My favorite use is hunting down cripples, its one of the few things theyre suited to.

No one really likes the Tyrant, it had no place in the fleet when BFG was introduced and quickly fell into disfavor. With the base stats the Tyrant is undergunned in the 45cm and 30cm bands compared to the other IN cruisers. It also suffers as the only ship it partners with effectivly in the original version was itself and since (like all IN cruisers) it requires a partner ship or squadron of escorts... Well basically no one took them.

With the range upgrade tho and the introduction of newer ships over the years I have come to like them for their ability to give the IN some teeth in the 45cm band.

[fracas]

I like the tyrant as the 45cm batteries in a 30cm range fleet has been helpful with Eldar.

I don't care for gothics for similar reasons and have come to appreciate the versatility of the lunars.


I am sure my bias are due to facing (and playing) eldar more than SM/Necrons.

[ElectricPaladin]

Well, I can tell you that my initial opponent is going to be Necrons. That's what my friend Jordan is going to be starting. Does that change anyone's recommendations for my fleet?

Btw, it's important to recall that since I'm using an allied Space Marine Strike Cruiser and Imperial cruisers come in blisters of 2, I'll have a spare cruiser. It sounds like everyone agrees I should build one as an Armageddon and one as a Gothic. If I do build one of the remaining two as an Armageddon, what should I do with the last one?

[Cneo]

Hi all,

I can't  find a new users forum so I take this opportunity to post here and greet everyone...

Regarding to the topic...

What do you think about including a pair of Mars BC's with the Emperor to be the core of your fleet?

The NC's and 60 cm. lances could provide you with a good firepower at long range whilst they launch some ordnance to join the Emperor fighters/bombers. I've used it sometimes with good results.

I like the Emperor BB but I prefer the pure firepower of an Apocalypse (I think it's better than the Retribution) and I'm actually building a new fleet starting with an Apoc.

 

[ElectricPaladin]

Hi all,

I can't  find a new users forum so I take this opportunity to post here and greet everyone...

Hi!

What do you think about including a pair of Mars BC's with the Emperor to be the core of your fleet?

The NC's and 60 cm. lances could provide you with a good firepower at long range whilst they launch some ordnance to join the Emperor fighters/bombers. I've used it sometimes with good results.

I like the Emperor BB but I prefer the pure firepower of an Apocalypse (I think it's better than the Retribution) and I'm actually building a new fleet starting with an Apoc.

The Mars works well with the apocalypse, because the Apocalypse is all guns and the Mars has lots of launch bays - that's the same reason that the Emperor works well with the Armageddon. They compliment each other. Unless you really like ordnance or really like guns, of course, in which case the Emperor/Mars and Apocalypse/Armageddon are great, respectively.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Well, I can tell you that my initial opponent is going to be Necrons. That's what my friend Jordan is going to be starting. Does that change anyone's recommendations for my fleet?

I think you would do well with the fleet as-is, you could change some things to tailor it towards the Necrons but thats kinda meh.

Btw, it's important to recall that since I'm using an allied Space Marine Strike Cruiser and Imperial cruisers come in blisters of 2, I'll have a spare cruiser. It sounds like everyone agrees I should build one as an Armageddon and one as a Gothic. If I do build one of the remaining two as an Armageddon, what should I do with the last one?

Well, i guess that depends on what you have decided to take as your fleet. I would say maybe a carrier for smaller games you cant fit the emperor into.

Hi all,

I can't  find a new users forum so I take this opportunity to post here and greet everyone...

Regarding to the topic...

What do you think about including a pair of Mars BC's with the Emperor to be the core of your fleet?

The NC's and 60 cm. lances could provide you with a good firepower at long range whilst they launch some ordnance to join the Emperor fighters/bombers. I've used it sometimes with good results.

This could work, its an aweful expense tho. 910 points out of an average 1500 doesnt leave you much to work with for your cruisers/ escorts. 

I like the Emperor BB but I prefer the pure firepower of an Apocalypse (I think it's better than the Retribution) and I'm actually building a new fleet starting with an Apoc.

 Go for it.

 

[horizon]

My IN is also led by the Apocalypse, just because.
Featuring one carrier. Oh me...

On the question: if race x and y will be my main opponents; would that change a thing.
In my opinion: no.

I always try to build a fleet trying to be allround, and having some nice aspects to it. I will never ever tailor.
It is also most fun if you do not know what race you will play against.

In campaign it is somewhat different though.

[Sigoroth]

Im a bit confused on the Tyrant comment, all Imperial cruisers are dependant on their broadsides and the Tyrant complements the range of the Armageddon although the Dominator would be an acceptable alternative I perfer two nova cannons as a minimum tho if theyre taken

Yeah... actually, I'm not sure where I was going with that. It made sense at the time.

So, you recommend a pair of Tyrants instead of a pair of Gothics? Or one Tyrant (to hang out with the Armageddon) and one Gothic (to hang out with the Falchions)?

No, I think you were right. The Tyrant is poo. Andrew is correct in that all IN cruisers are dependant upon getting their broadsides but the Tyrant not only sacrifices firepower to gain its range, at an increased cost no less, but it also abandons its only strength to do so; ie, broadsides. On top of this as a gunboat it performs poorly at range, as it suffers a column shift (as opposed to a similarly ranged lanceboat).

Compare it to the cheaper Chaos Carnage. The Carnage has the same firepower out to 60cm and considerably more firepower at 45cm. The IN can't afford to try to compete in this arena. Therefore the Tyrant would have to be used just like any other IN cruiser, ie, prow on, torpedoes on the way in and trying to get targets in both broadsides. In this role you're basically sacrificing 17% of your firepower for the opportunity to incidentally support the Armageddon when you happen to have a target of opportunity outside the 30cm range. Not a good choice.

If you really want to support the Armageddon with another ranged ship then take another Armageddon, or a Mars, or even an Overlord (now that they're worthwhile).

[ElectricPaladin]

Im a bit confused on the Tyrant comment, all Imperial cruisers are dependant on their broadsides and the Tyrant complements the range of the Armageddon although the Dominator would be an acceptable alternative I perfer two nova cannons as a minimum tho if theyre taken

Yeah... actually, I'm not sure where I was going with that. It made sense at the time.

So, you recommend a pair of Tyrants instead of a pair of Gothics? Or one Tyrant (to hang out with the Armageddon) and one Gothic (to hang out with the Falchions)?

No, I think you were right. The Tyrant is poo. Andrew is correct in that all IN cruisers are dependant upon getting their broadsides but the Tyrant not only sacrifices firepower to gain its range, at an increased cost no less, but it also abandons its only strength to do so; ie, broadsides. On top of this as a gunboat it performs poorly at range, as it suffers a column shift (as opposed to a similarly ranged lanceboat).

Compare it to the cheaper Chaos Carnage. The Carnage has the same firepower out to 60cm and considerably more firepower at 45cm. The IN can't afford to try to compete in this arena. Therefore the Tyrant would have to be used just like any other IN cruiser, ie, prow on, torpedoes on the way in and trying to get targets in both broadsides. In this role you're basically sacrificing 17% of your firepower for the opportunity to incidentally support the Armageddon when you happen to have a target of opportunity outside the 30cm range. Not a good choice.

If you really want to support the Armageddon with another ranged ship then take another Armageddon, or a Mars, or even an Overlord (now that they're worthwhile).

So, would you consider it worth it to - say - trade in two of my Falchions for the points to switch the Tyrant out for a second Armageddon, a Mars, or an Overlord?

Of the three, I'm most inclined towards the second Armageddon. Mars is pretty ordnancy, and my Emperor covers that. And the Overlord... just doesn't thrill me as support for the Armageddon. I could see it supporting the Emperor ok, though.

That would leave my "combat groups" as:

Emperor --> hanging back

Armageddon x2 --> mid range

Gothic + 3 Falchions --> close range

Strike Cruiser + 3 Firestorms --> close range/boarding actions

[fracas]

I think this is an illegal list

[ElectricPaladin]

I think this is an illegal list

You're right. I can only have one battlecruiser for every two cruisers.