Mixed IN Fleet Tactics

[Talos]

Horizon can speak for himself , I think but I suspect it's because in a bigger game, unlike explorers who can't shoot squat the custodian becomes a waste of point if it not using all its weapon systems. Although welcome to the forums buddy

[ThaneAquilon]

Thanks man!

That makes sense, I guess. I haven't really seen that it's that overwhelming, but I guess once the IN fleet comes into it's own, I'll need to maximise everything, caution be damned.

It seems really conterintuitive to have to move up my carrier into to enemy range, especially whe my carrier is more fragile than the average. Obviously the explorer, despite being a bettleship stays the hell away from the enemy ranks, but I'm not sure if the damage output ofthe Custodians guns outweight he potential need to BFI and manoeuvre, which would be terrible.

I would still like to hear from vets who may be able expand a bit, if you're out there!

[AndrewChristlieb]

How much priority should I give to shooting those bomber waves? Is it worth firing (to use my sample list) 2 of my swords? Half? All of them? And on the question of torpedos, which I have never really used much yet, non-tau torps seem easy to avoid for mobile fleets outside of 30cm...how do you guys use them in these scenarios? And how do you make the custodian close?

If your shooting at ordinance it had better be because theres nothing else in range/ firearc. If you are going to be close enough to shoot him your most likely going to have passed his faster ordy or been able to intercept it with an escort group supporting one of your Endurances. Now if theres nothing else to shoot at use everything you have available that can fire, if all of your swords are in range then use them all, locked on!

Long range torps... Got really nerfed when they went to the faq rules but you can still use them to screen your fleet, the enemy is either going to move to avoid them or wast fighter/ torps on taking them out. I would say just save them tho to use against incoming torp salvos or waves with fighters supporting bombers, dont waste them on individual fighters.

Last, I wouldnt make the Custodian close, why would you want it to? You should be happy he is willing to stay back and take as many nova blasts as possible . Ultimately tho you are going to have to move in closer, you just want to make sure you have as good an advantage as you can. I would even say if you have a chance to hit them by using aaf you should be alright, so long as you can atleast force the Custodian to brace. He should be attempting to get you lined up in his forward arc due to the layout of his weapons so i would try to get beside him, his Custodian can only bring half weapons to bear then and the light cruisers although able to turn and bring their full weapons to bear wont be able to lock on if they do so. Even if they do lock on your only looking at 3wb and 1 lance from them per side.

[horizon]

Did I say it should close? It doesn't need to. But if it does when the lines get closer it needs to be prow on to use its guns.

If the Custodian stays far away on abeam line, then there is nothing wrong with going on AAF to get by their engines. If you are passed the Tau front arc it suddenly gets less scary.

Shoot at ordnance waves with everything if nothing else is near. Otherwise you will have to read the tactical situation. Is the wave supported by more (missile strike)? Are their enemy ships near which will harass your fleet?

[fracas]

Also, about that armageddon list...why that specific list? Is it the only one that allows that ship combo? And should I include an admiral? By my count, it only adds up to 695pts (705 if I throw in PRams for the hell of it).

the armageddon battle cruiser is only available in some list. the armageddon list will also allow you to field 2 dictators and 2 armageddon bc at larger points game.

i would squadron the dictators together to benefit from one reload ordnance roll at the higher leadership of the two ships. this will reload both attack crafts and torpedoes.
the armageddon with a nova cannon would never benefit from reload ordnance, thus should not be squadroned with the dictators.

[Talos]

That seems quite sound, fracas. Although squadroning two of the only three ships in a force seems like it would make it an incredibly difficult choice as to when to brace for impact. Also, is it worth combining salvoes on capital ships? Such as to make mega death salvoes? I would assume against other capitals it is potentially worth it, if not against escorts, but what do you all think of that?

[AndrewChristlieb]

Combining salvos leaves you vulnerable to return fire so i try to avoid it unless i can line up multiple hits. Im also loath to squadron capitols in small matches, luckly you can roll for leadership before you decide to squadron tho so if you end up with decent leadership on both id run them seperatly.

[fracas]

it depends on your playing style. i tend not to brace very much so the combined attack is worthwhile to me.
if you look at it, the main advantage to squadroning is for offense, and thus i want it to count.

[Talos]

Very true...so what about the offense itself? Presumably you would keep them close to each other to maximize their strengths (standard IN) but do you combine ordinance on to one target? And against ordinance heavy fleets in particular, do you send out a lot of fighters, or torp/bomb the living s*** out of a single target at a time?

[fracas]

Ordnance attacks are best combined with torpedoes fighters bombers
I would apply enough attacks to cripple then move on

Against enemy ordnances I would still play aggressive: launch fighters from one dictator to take out fighters escorting bombers, and use escorts with 2+ turrets in base to base (+1 turret each) to take out torpedoes I cannot avoid and I couldn't take out from shooting (I would only shoot at them if there is nothing else better to shoot at).

[Talos]

Very interesting...I have heard people mention firing a Nova's to clear out particularly large ordinance waves, but this seems wasteful in small games, at least. What are your thoughts on that? Also, 4 AC wave, how many bombers/fighters? 3:1 ratio would be my assumption.

[fracas]

Against 2turrets
3B 1F causes 5.5 hits on average
2B 2F causes 5 hits on average
Against 3turrets
3B 1F causes 2.5 hits on average
2B 2F causes 3 hits on average
Average not median

I normally go with 2&2

[Talos]

Thank you very much, fracas! Always nice to see a number crunch. As i'm currently playing tau, 2:2 seems appropriate. What do you think of mars BC? I tried it and it seemed quite underwhelming, frankly.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Novas work better in large games with multiple cannons. I wouldnt take a mars in less than 750 amd even then its iffy.

[horizon]

Yeah, the current NC is to weak on its own (yet I still employ 1 in 1500pts IN or AdMech... I am so weird...     )

The Mars is okay- ish. A real support carrier opposed to the attack carrier the Dictator is.