September 18, 2024, 12:21:38 AM

Author Topic: Orbital Defenses  (Read 14046 times)

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2012, 06:23:26 PM »
Mallich, you say yes but then list defense specifics. Are you saying yet, like Tyranids can use orbital platforms? I think that is what you are saying and the list of racial specific defenses is additional.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2012, 09:38:22 PM »
We allow lock on too ::) it seems somewhat silly that they wouldn't try to AIM at the ships moving towards them with ill intent.

 I see no reason for anyone not to be able to use the defenses, I'm pretty sure even the nids can spawn something that is able to fire a gun on a captured platform and if that doesn't float your boat then give them spores instead of shields/turrets and make some suitably awesome models to represent them! Its been well documented in the past (white dwarf for example) that the GW guys used the standard rules for Eldar and Ork defenses also so I see no reason that the same couldn't be assumed for every race (Dark Eldar and CWE can run an Imp installation as well as Corsair, Tau should have no problem either and probably build pretty similar installations themselves, Admech Smurfs and Rogue Traders are a no brainer, and Im sure the Necrons can figure something out) I am glad to know that BFG-R is working out racial specific defenses tho so that should hopefully alleviate any problems.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 09:49:36 PM by AndrewChristlieb »
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2012, 04:11:58 AM »
I just hope the Tyranid fleet list, when it is finally released in all its glory, will have as much awesome stuff as the rest of the fleets. I am anxious for that day when I can have the tyranids defending a planet that is infested and being consumed so I can put all sorts of defenses around it and throw some Imperial fleet at it.  I am going to try to be the first person to use BFG:R defenses in a picture documented battle report. LIVE FOR THE SWARM

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2012, 04:31:18 AM »
Indeed, I don't know what sounds better tho, organic defenses spawned specifically for the purpose or infested imperial platforms :D.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2012, 05:46:54 AM »
Both?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2012, 12:55:51 PM »
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Jimmy Zimms

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 01:14:31 AM »
We allow lock on too ::) it seems somewhat silly that they wouldn't try to AIM at the ships moving towards them with ill intent.

Yeah I should of added earlier that we follow some home brew formula that works for us: BFI, LO, RO orders are all allowed in our games and we roll for leadership though with a -1. Seems pretty silly the way that orbitals work in the core rules in our collective opinions of course YMMV.
As we Imperials say, "The Emperor [class battleship] Protects..."

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 01:39:05 AM »
Rolling for their leadership makes a lot of sense I'm going to have to try that out!
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2012, 05:13:19 AM »
My theory is they probably just wanted to keep orbital defenses really simplified so you wouldn't have to put much thought into them. To some degree I like that but I don't see the problem in adding a little bit more complexity to the defenses like those that are present on ships. I wouldn't give to much extra to the defenses because then you are tampering with their quality/points ratio here.

Offline Mallich

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2012, 05:47:48 PM »
Mallich, you say yes but then list defense specifics. Are you saying yet, like Tyranids can use orbital platforms? I think that is what you are saying and the list of racial specific defenses is additional.
Sorry. After doing more reading I'm more confused than before and really not sure what the rules are.
I think that all factions other than Tau have access to the "Gothic Sector Planetary Defenses List", but some factions - Tyranid, Eldar, Ork, etc - have additional options added to the list (ordnance, Spire, rok)". The rules aren't clear nor explicit, except in the case of Orks.

My original opinion was that the 'nids got the ordnance instead of the Gothic Sector list (Tyranid Scenario notes: "On defence the Tyranids can spend additional points for planetary defences on Ordnance") but on second thoughts the quote doesn't say that. I also thought that Waystations were in addition to the Gothic Sector list, but looking again (Armada page 106) I see "Including Orbitals: Orbitals can be used when planetary defences are allowed. The Tau may spend their points allocation for planetary defences on orbitals. The Tau may not use any other form of planetary defence." Later, Forgeworld added the Orbital City and Security orbitals, which seem to either replace the normal Tau Orbitals or to be in addition to the Tau Orbitals - it doesn't make it clear which is the case.

Offline Jimmy Zimms

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2012, 05:50:45 PM »
My theory is they probably just wanted to keep orbital defenses really simplified so you wouldn't have to put much thought into them. To some degree I like that but I don't see the problem in adding a little bit more complexity to the defenses like those that are present on ships. I wouldn't give to much extra to the defenses because then you are tampering with their quality/points ratio here.

granted but rolling leadership is a no brainer here. that's variable on the core fleets and doesn't effect the cost of say a Mars Battlecruiser.
As we Imperials say, "The Emperor [class battleship] Protects..."

Offline Zhukov

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2012, 01:45:25 AM »
Have we stopped to think about the fundamentals of what Orbital Defenses should be? Why would you build a defense platform with just one weapon system on it? If you have multiple platforms, but each only has one kind of weapon, then you lose a weapon system entirely if one goes down. However, if you mount all three weapons onto each platform, albeit in lower strengths, you can consistently put a presence against any opponent that comes after you. And in reality, torpedoes and attack craft are the best form of planetary defense. Your opponent must come towards the planet, so the best way to disrupt the enemy on the way in is to fire torpedoes escorted by fighters. This will do one of two things: 1. Completely disrupt the rythm of the attacker as he avoids the torpedo waves and, 2. Likely be taking damage on the way in. After this, I would rank WB's as the next important weapon as most targets would be naturally closing against you at the 60cm range bracket (for those about to say this isn't always true, may I remind you their are ususally turn limits on games that make it more difficult to take the time to line up a platform abeam of you).

This is how I have done my platforms. I have not assigned points values as of yet:

Light Platform
Same core stats (Armor, hits, shields, etc.) and all weapons fire all around.
4 Torpedoes
2 Weapons Batteries @60cm
1 Lance @30cm

Heavy Platform (edit note: I had extra turrets and wanted to use them, lol)
Same core stats and all weapons fire all around.
4 Torpedoes
4 Weapons Batteries @60cm
2 Lances @30cm

This makes MUCH more sense to me than having a platform with just one weapon system that can find itself useless depending on the enemy engaging it.

After examining the Space Station model that GW produces, I don't think the stats in the Blue Book represent the model well at all. So I propose we look at the model and do a true redesign. I've thought about making using the quadrant idea the Ramilies uses to do the Station. Tentatively, this is what I've thought up.

Each Quadrant has:
4 Hits, 2 shields, 5+ armor, 2 turrets (quadrants may combine turret strength)

6 Weapons Batteries @60cm
2 Lances @30cm

I don't see anything on the GW model to represent Launch Bays so I was willing to drop them from my stats. I think this presents a tougher target to finish off, but keeps it balanced in terms of outgoing firepower. Again, I haven't assigned actual points totals.

Thoughts?

-Zhukov
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 02:13:21 AM by Zhukov »
I am Zukov's Klaw.

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Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2012, 03:09:35 AM »
Very interesting this does make a lot of sense. The key here I think would be to try and work these in with the existing defence platforms instead of replacing them outright. The space stations would make a lot more sense by giving them updated rules based off of the ramiles. Hmmm I'll be thinking on this for a while now :D.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline commander

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2012, 07:38:53 AM »
I never understood why they were made so ... vulnerable.
I see defence platforms more as immobile ships with a front, port, starboard and aft and able to fire in every angle. Heavily armoured AND shielded and in case of HP more towards cruisers than escorts; you want them to survive enemy salvoes.
Stations are more close to grand cruisers or battleships in HP IMO and than you have the fortress.
But that's only my opinion.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Orbital Defenses
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2012, 01:04:50 PM »
The problem with that is the defense platforms need to be relatively cheap due to the low amount points you can typically field. Larger platforms with multiple shields and a quadrant structure could be made but their price would have to go up significantly, not really a problem but something to consider.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.