Imperial scratch build light carrier. Thoughts/input on points?

[Algavinn]

I put this together from spare parts and a few 40k parts and other random bits.  I'm still looking to design a prow and a compartment a bit bigger than one of the launch bays to place between the engine and the last launch bay to put the bridge on.  The main issue for now though is that I need input on how many points I should assign to this vessel.  Could some one please give me some suggestions?  I'm giving it the stats of of a light cruiser, but i don't know if the weapons load out should have me assign closer to cruiser points levels.  Input please?


Light Cruiser/4
20cm 
90 degrees 
2 shields 
4+ armour
1 turret


port lance battery 1 LF  30cm
starboard lance battery 1 RF  30cm
port lanch bays 4 squadrons
starboard launch bays 4 squadrons
prow lance battery 1 F  45cm
Dorsal battery 1 FLR 30cm

150pts?

Carriers are a rarely seen Imperial asset, but are jealously fought over by many admirals.  Often foresaken as too lighty armored, a carrier can be the linchpen of many fleets, offering a staggering quantity of fighters to defend against incoming ordnance, as well as a powerful deterrant angainst more maneauverable escorts that seek to circle around and attack slower moving cruisers and battleships.  Few escort squadrons can make their strike and leave without risking total annihilation from a massed wave of eight bomber squadrons, let alone any other defensive fire.  When adding its attack craft to the waves of other cruisers, there are few forces that can avoid having their turrets fighters and shields overwhelmed.


http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd17/Algavinn_of_Biel_Tan/DSCN0521.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd17/Algavinn_of_Biel_Tan/DSCN0520.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd17/Algavinn_of_Biel_Tan/DSCN0518.jpg

(before removing the extra assault bay and nose cone).

[AndrewChristlieb]

wow thats a lot of attack craft for any ship much less IN, I would say in the neighborhood of 200-250 maybe all tho you could probably shave a bit of points by dropping most of those lances, maybe just limit it to 1 port and starboard with fixed broadside arcs and 6 launch bays (3/ broadside) and the price tag would still have to be a bit on the high side even for this.

[Tyberius]

8 squadrons and 3 lances in a 4 hit light cruiser?

sorry, unfeasible, unfluffy, unbalanced..

this ship should cost 200 pts as it is


There are 2 light carriers on the IN: the defiant and the enforcer. Both of them have 6 hits, only 2 bays, and cost of 120-130 points.
Defiants have 2 30cm l/f/r prow lances
enforcers have 3 30cm F prow lances

I think this ship is clearly an escort carrier, more a recomissioned transport than a real warship. And should have 6 hits and only 4 bays (doesn't matters if you used 6 bits for bays, Emperor battleships have 8 bays and only 4 pieces)
You have to sacrifice all lances in order to have more than 2 launch bays, so Drop the lances and just add 3 or 4 prow 30 cm l/f/r weapon batteries. (they are for self defence, a dedicated carrier doesn't need big guns)


Light Cruiser/6
20cm
90 degrees
1 shield (not even 6 hit cruisers have 2 shields)
5+ armour (4+ armor is for eldar and very small escorts)
2 turrets (is a carrier, should have enough turrets)

port launch bays 2 squadrons
starboard launch bays 2 squadrons

Prow battery 4 FLR 30cm

with this config it should cost 125 pts

[Jimmy Zimms]

Agreed this needs a bit of refactoring. My thoughts:

1. Notice you've got 4 weapons bays constituting the bulk of the ship. In general, 1=Lt Cruiser, 2 Cruiser, and 3 = Battleship. You've got 4 (well ok 3 1/2  )
I have NO issue with that, but keep it in mind when you are trying to cost/build rules for it.

2. This should be a character ship, not a class I believe. Publish it with a bit of back story to give it some flavor and if you really want to go all out, add a scenario.
e.g. " The exact history of the 'Dilligent' system control ship is unclear and fragmentary at best. It is not known when the keel was originally laid down but records do show it operating from Forgeworld Tyberius in the Acadia sector by M35. Not a true warship it was designed under the principle of combined fleet actions for major operations as a support vessel, albeit unlike any Imperial to come ship before it..." yada yada yada

3. Think trade offs. I look at this guy and see big, slow, but lacking the heavy armour and bracing to take the hits. Basically she's a flying (floating?) airbase brimming with fighters, fuel, and missles and not much else. I actually dig the 10 ordinance idea but give her battleship style turning and speed but only 8 hits (cruiser level) to represent the weaker structure (remember, she's only used in major engagements supported by large numbers of tenders). In addition, give her a special critical hit table/rules similar to the Invincible class (that's the one that rolls two dice for critical hits, right?)

4. Price her up. Let's be serious here. Ordinance is king and even massed turrets and various other rules to attempt to rebalance bombers hasn't totally fixed things. And for all the old geezers out there this makes us immediately think of the old eldar carrier fleet of doom cheese we used to see. Cost her at least at an Emperpor.

[Sigoroth]

I would run that as a civilian transport ship, or a cargo hauler, not a warship.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ya I agree on the civi ship, the -1 to reload ordnance rules that transport carriers have would be useful in balancing it also
 

[Algavinn]

Thanks for all the input guys, exactly what I needed.  I'm only just acquiring my fleets and learning BFG so my understanding of points and weapons balance is not amazing yet.

It only has 2.5 weapon compartments, I ditched one of the craft bays but only have URL links to the pics of the new version. However thinking of the number of weapon compartments in the context of what cruisers and battleships have is certainly a deciding factor.  I think the direction to take it would be increasing points for sure, tooling back the weapons outload a bit.  I want to keep it set up as a true carrier, so keep it with a good amount of ordnance, but dropping it down to 6 sounds good to me.  Less than an emperor, but still more than a cruiser/battle cruiser that is set up for a wide range of weapon systems.  (I don't see the point in having a 'carrier' with less ships than one of my cruisers, when the carrier is dedicated).

Dropping the prow lance and dorsal battery is fine with me, but I think I will be keeping the side lances if for no other reason than they are modeled on and I don't have any reasonable batteries to attach.  I will making them LR only though.

The idea of having it be a slower harder to maneauver vessel that is indeed only in larger engagements (with rules that stipulate it only being used in battles with so many capital ships or points levels sounding like a good adendum) does sound good.  But what are the thoughts on either keeping it as a light cruiser to make it more vulnerable (as far as the hit points, shields and turrets are concerned) and/or adding those suggested special critical hit rules, say a higher chance of critical damage perhaps due to the lesser amount of reinforced bulkheads, and higher content of fuels and munitions?

So weapons loadout I'm looking at this:

port lance battery 1 L 30cm
starboard lance battery 1 R 30cm
port lanch bays 3 squadrons
starboard launch bays 3 squadrons


And for the ship otherwise:
Light Cruiser (or a carrier designation) 6
20cm
45 degrees
1 shield
4/5+ armor
2 turrets


Rules:
Can only be used in engagements with either 1000pts+ or 4 other capital ships?

Has twice the chance of sustaining a critical hit.



So this lowers the weapon load a bit to really make it a carrier with just a small amount of defensive weaponry beyond its ordnance, less maneauverable, and with special rules that reflect its vulnerability and rarity/importance.  I don't want it to be a civilian craft, but I feel the above changes with an appropriate points level would be adequate. 


Any thoughts on this particular load out, and a suggested points total for it?

Also, I do still need to build a prow at least, but this is how it is looking now.  http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd17/Algavinn_of_Biel_Tan/DSCN0521.jpg



Thanks gain for all the excellent input!

[AndrewChristlieb]

I think it looks fine as is but if you really want a prow 2 sm shoulder pads back2back should look ok on the front and is pretty similar to the standard IN style.

[Algavinn]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'l give that a try a bit later tonight.  I can also cut off part of the bottom to make it look a bit more angled.

[afterimagedan]

I like this new look better. I would consider trimmimg down the nova cannon on the front so no one is confused.

[horizon]

Hey,
here are my kitbshed ones with marine shoulder pads as the prow.

[Sigoroth]

As I have said, this looks like a civi ship to me, not a warship. As for the rules, er, no. No 6 AC light cruisers thanks. Hell, no 4 AC light cruisers for that matter.

[Tyberius]

I agree with Sigoroth, It looks like a CVE (escort carrier, recomissioned and refitted merchant ship)

and there's No way a light cruiser can hold 6 Launch Bays

the stats should be like this:

cost 125 pts
Light Cruiser/6
20cm
90 degrees
1 shield
5+ armour
2 turrets

port launch bays 2 squadrons
starboard launch bays 2 squadrons

Prow battery 4 FLR 30cm (you actually can make lance turrets look like weapon battery turrets by trimming the 2 long barreled lances and leaving the 3 short barreled ones, as I did in my dreadnought.



as for the prow, use a normal transport ship prow, or a defence monitor prow like those "sleipner class" made by Warmaster Nice







 

[Algavinn]

I like those stats for a light carrier, I think that looks pretty reasonable.  I think I may have to make a full cruiser carrier at some point as a defensive element for larger fleets to stop ordnance, as was its original purpose.  Maybe taking an overlord class battlecruiser and replacing the weapons batteries with launch bays, and bumping it to 250 points? It's still quite hard for me to judge the worth of the various weapon systems until I have a lot more experience.

These light cruiser stats will do for smaller games though, while adding defense and personality to my fleet.  In some games with eldar vs my imperials, the mobility of the eldar is definitely a blade to the throat, and if they get behind you, it's over.

I appreciate all the input, I think I'm happy to run it with those stats.  I don't have any lance bits left at the moment, but I'll find something for a LFR battery, and yeah I like those prows, I might have to do that.  Those are some damn good looking ships.

[Tyberius]

The idea of a light carrier with 2 or 3 lances is perfectly good wnen you have only 2 launch bays, and when it is a warship..
since this ship is a bit flimsier, and has 4 Bays, lances could be a serious reactor overloading issue. that's why the wb's are the best choice.


In fact, the idea of a support carrier battlecruiser is not new.
There's a ship, from battlefleet bakka, the Jovian class bc,  that was refitted from a mars class after she rammed an ork cruiser.
nova cannon was useless as well as the wb so they replaced the batteries with another set of Launch bays leaving it without any prow armament.

stats:

Jovian class Battlecruiser  pts. 250
cruiser/8
20 cm
45º
shields 2
armor 5+ / 6+ prow
turrets 2

Armament:
Port Launch Bays : 3 squadrons
Starboard Launch Bays: 3 squadrons
Dorsal Lances : 2 - 60cm - L/F/R
Since the prow is empty I would propose changing the armoured prow for an unarmoured sensor array prow giving +1 to ld
I think dropping the armoured prow would lower the points cost to 230