Tau Protection Fleet 2010 overview

[Zelnik]

Here is a proposal, make the protector lc2 barracudas only. This will allow the fleet to maintain a strong attack craft presence while shifting the bomber role up to their larger carriers.  Let's face it, you should not be launching bombers from a protector anyway with the current rules.

[horizon]

Nah, that would make it weaker during raids without carrier backup.

[Sigoroth]

Yeah.


A Protector note:
perhaps this is an option, it is fiddling but it could mean the solution in the AC department without a big hassle.
Modelwise it has a large hangar for Manta's mounted on the keel. Along the prow it has hangars as well. These hangars are big enough for Orca dropships, thus big enough for Barracuda fighters. I know because I asked.

This could be done:
1 launch bay - Manta
1 launch bay - Barracuda
So it could launch 2 AC in total but always 1 of each.

This is interesting.

[LuCarD]

Can't we just leave the current models ( Protector ) the same but add one grav hook? This way we make the fleet list more versatile.

[Sigoroth]

Can't we just leave the current models the same but add one grav hook? This way we make the fleet list more versatile.

Add one hook to what? The Emissary's hooks are the circles on the wings, the Custodians hooks are in the central (3 Wardens actually fit into it) and the Protector has no hooks.

Besides, adding more hooks wouldn't help the fleet unless the Warden was better value. Also, adding hooks doesn't add versatility, it removes it. It puts even more pressure on players to bring more escorts and so gives fewer points for other ships. For example, let's say that each ship had 3 hooks. So if you took 2 Protectors you'd take 6 Wardens to go with them. Essentially, this would just tack on 90 points to each capital ship, meaning you get less of them. So increasing hooks decreases your options and so, versatility. If hooks were rife throughout the fleet but they didn't cost anything and the extra points were placed in the escorts themselves then yes, this would increase versatility.

[LuCarD]

Sorry... I mean the protector ...

Leave the protector model as it is ... And add a grav hook

[Sigoroth]

Sorry... I mean the protector ...

Leave the protector model as it is ... And add a grav hook

I don't think the model has one anywhere. Besides, it doesn't quite fix the ship. Would you rather a 5 pt decrease or a "free" hook (ie, you're spending the 5 pts on the hook instead)? This would just mean that now you've got to buy an escort to go with that hook or else the upgrade is wasted and we're left where we were. I'd just prefer the 5 pt discount, to be honest.

[Zelnik]

I would agree with sig on this one.

When it comes to the specific "one barracuda, one manta" my only issue is that there are TWO fighter launch bays on the model, each with enough slots to launch a squadron each... it's why I approved of the original LC2.

Also remember that miniatures for fighter craft are NOT in ANY way to scale, even less so then the other ships in the game.  I don't care of the protector keeps it's 5 torpedos, I want my LC2 back.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ok so Protector complaints/ suggestions are:
5pts cost reduction
Attack craft limit increased from 1 to 2 OR 1F 1B
Torpedoes increased from 5 to 6

Why not try leaving the price the same, adding one unrestricted launch bay, and removing one torpedo. The torpedo is not worth the same price as the launch, but its already over priced so that should balance out.

[commander]

And by doing so (AC) a massive increase of IN/chaos AC because their LB are so massive?
The Tau are 'working' with a relatively small weapons platform here.

[horizon]

Heya,

1Manta + 1Barracuda (1b+1f)

for the cost of 185pts-190pts.

Why? Because the extra fighter increases the worth of the Manta & Missiles by a margin as well.

edit:
Zelnik,
there is only 1 Manta bay, so launching 2 Manta's is unrealistic I think.
Going by the prow fighter bays: one could argue that a barracuda wave is more vessels thus more 'holes' needed.

1 Manta + 2 fighters would be too much. So 1 Manta + 1 fighter is a reasonable balance while following what the model gives.

[Sigoroth]

I would agree with sig on this one.

When it comes to the specific "one barracuda, one manta" my only issue is that there are TWO fighter launch bays on the model, each with enough slots to launch a squadron each... it's why I approved of the original LC2.

Also remember that miniatures for fighter craft are NOT in ANY way to scale, even less so then the other ships in the game.  I don't care of the protector keeps it's 5 torpedos, I want my LC2 back.

Yeah, but as has been said, the launch bays on IN and Chaos vessels are huge compared to those fighter bays on the Protector. There are also launch bays on the Emissary, but they're pretty much slated for transport shuttles and orbital drop craft (apart from one really craptastic variant that has a fighter bay at the expense of its torpedoes ... can't imagine who'd use it).

And having a ship that can launch 1 of 1 type and another of another type is really quite interesting. There's some flavour there. And it is still launch capacity 2 after all, just not 2 of anything.

[Sigoroth]

Ah, an idea. Regarding the WYSIWYG nature of the Protector we can safely assume that the bay which gives it its current figher/Manta capacity is the keel bay. So the prow bays would be for transport shuttles and orbital drop ships. How about a variant that sacrifices some torpedo storage for extra fighters to be launched from these prow bays? So drop torps down to 2 and add 2 fighter capacity? So this would allow it to launch 3 fighters or 2 fighters and 1 Manta. This doesn't balance the current Protector of course, so reduce its price by 5 points or so and add the carrier version.

[AndrewChristlieb]

The problem with that is the same as the Emissary tho. By removing torpedoes (even a portion) your removing damage inflicting weapons for fighters that may or may not be useful. If the torpedoes get dropped they should be removed entirely in favor of launch bays using a standard mix of attack craft (0 torpedoes 3 launch bays).

Personally I would like to see a mix of 2 launch and 4-6 torpedoes as standard and the weapons batteries to be taken out of a fixed forward firing arc as per all other tau designs, an additional 5cm speed should be standard as well if were dreaming here ;-).

These are all things that would fit with the taus preferred method of attack and would make the vessel much more able to actually perform flanking attacks instead of being forced to always close to attack. (not that it actually HAS to close, but really 2wb and 1 lance )

I'm not really opposed to the idea of a mix of fighter only and bomber only bays either, this does sound quite fluffy especially for the almost self sufficient ship that this has turned out to be. I just don't think they should lose anything to bring that ability, if this approach is taken I would rather see it as a way to patch the 5pt price issue.

[horizon]

Hi Sigoroth,

per the Protector model designer the prow bays are big enough for Orca dropships. Orca dropships are bigger then Barracuda fighters.

Even though FW was not good with scaling it all within GW, I do give them credit for scaling it with their own models.

I do not see it as beneficial to drop the missiles to a lower strength.


Fixing all weaponry Forward:
Railguns: yes (they're mounted fixed).
Ion cannons: no (they swivel)