Necron Dynasties Rules and Fleet List

[RayB HA]

Hi Guys,

I'm going to update this first post as the changes and new ideas come in.

Cheers,

RayB HA

+++++++++++++

Necron Dynasties

Special Rules

Leadership
Necrons have the following Leadership table: 1,2=7, 3-4=8, 5-6=9.
Necrons do not gain a leadership bonus for enemy contacts.

Inertialess Drive
Minimum distance before turning is reduced by 5cm.
Come to New heading, All Ahead Full and Burn Retros special orders do not half firepower,
instead they reduce the ships armour value to 5+ until the special order is removed.

Living Metal
Critical Hits suffered do not cause extra damage.
Fire, Hull Breach and Bulkhead Collapse critical results are taken but have no effect.
When repairing critical hits you may reroll failed repair rolls.

Teleporter Attacks
Necron capital ships may make teleporter attacks against any target and have double the number of teleporter attacks against targets with lower remaining hits.

Sepulchre Upgrades
Tombships and Shrouds have Sepulchres that offer either a Stealth or a Sensor bonus chosen at the begining of each Necron turn. (I suggest using a coin to mark which you have chosen, Tails for Stealth and Heads for Sensors).
Stealth: All ships within 15cm don't offer a bonus to enemy command checks due to enemy contacts. In addition the Shroud/Tombship counts as cellestial phenomenon for Necron ships when disengaging.
Sensors: Necrons within 15cm of any Sepulchres in Sensor mode gain +1 Leadership for command checks if any enemy is on special orders. In addition any enemy wishing to disengage within 15cm of the Shroud suffers -3 to its leadership (including the normal -1 for being an enemy ship).


Weapons

Lightning Arcs
Gunnery weapons that count all targets as closing.
You may only target the closest enemy excluding ordnance in an arc of your choice.
You may divide your Lightning Arcs in different fire arcs in any ratio you wish.
Note: All Lightning Arcs have Left/Front/Right firing arcs.

Particle Whip
Lance that ignores shields when the targets armour is met or beaten.

Ordnance

Portals
These are Launch bays that don't begin the game loaded, when you reload you must launch in the same turn, counting as empty for the next turn.
If a Necron ship with portals is not on special orders it may relaunch Attack Craft already on the table, including Canoptek Swarms.

Scythe
30cm speed Fighter.

Night Scythe
30cm speed Assualt Boat.

Tomb Blades
20cm speed Bomber.

Canoptek Hive
These are launch bays that can only launch Canoptek Swarms, do not add to the Attack Craft limit and do not have the special Portal rules for reloading and relaunching.

Canoptek Swarms
10cm speed Orbital mines causing fire criticals instead of damage.
Canoptek Swarms must automatically repair a single repairable critical hit if they come into contact with a friendly Necron ship that is currently suffering from a repairable critical hit.
Note: This includes when relaunching from portals. 
Canoptek Swarms don't use the attack craft limit, just like normal mines.


Tombship
Type: Battleship, Hits: 12, Speed: 25cm, Turns: 45*, Shields: 4, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 4
Dorsal Particle Whip, 5, 45cm, LFR 
Prow Lightning Arc, 8, 30cm, LFR
Prow Canoptek Hive, 1
In addition choose three of the following sets of broadsides:
Starboard Lightning Arc, 2, 30cm, LFR
Port Lightning Arc, 2, 30cm, LFR
OR
Starboard Portals, 1
Port Portals, 1
Notes: +5D6cm on AAF, The Tombship also has a Sepulchre.

Scythe/Reaper
Type: Cruiser, Hits: 8, Speed: 30cm, Turns: 45*, Shields: 2, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 3
Dorsal Particle Whip, 3, 45cm, LFR
Prow Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
In addition choose two of the following sets of broadsides:
Starboard Lightning Arc, 2, 30cm, LFR
Port Lightning Arc, 2, 30cm, LFR
OR
Starboard Portals, 1
Port Portals, 1
Notes: +5D6cm on AAF.

Shroud
Type: Cruiser, Hits: 6, Speed: 35cm, Turns: 90*, Shields: 1, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 2
Starboard Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
Port Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
In addition Choose one of the following Prow Weapons:
Prow Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
Prow Portals, 2
Prow Canoptek Hive, 1
Notes: +6D6cm on AAF. The Shroud also has a Sepulchre.


Jackal
Type: Escort, Hits: 1, Speed: 35cm, Turns: 90*, Shields: 1, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 2
Lightning Arc, 3, 30cm, LFR
Portal, 1* (This Portal does not add to the attack craft limit, in addition it may not use Reload special orders).
Notes: +6D6cm on AAF, May replace Portal with Str 2 Lightning Arcs.


Dirge
Type: Escort, Hits: 1, Speed: 40cm, Turns: 90*, Shields: 1, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 1
Lightning Arc, 3, 30cm, LFR
Notes: +6D6cm on AAF


Stasis Ship (Transport)
Type: Escort, Hits: 1, Speed: 25cm, Turns: 90*, Shields: 1, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 1
Lightning Arc, 3, 15cm, LFR
Notes: +4D6cm on AAF, counts as 2 Transports, (-1 leadership as normal transports) may not be squadroned.


Fleet Commander
0-1 Fleet Commander
The most expensive capitalship in your fleet may be captained by a fleet commander.
You must include a fleet commander if your fleet is worth over 750pts.

Phaeron (Ld 9 )....50pts
Nemesor (Ld 8 )....25pts

Your fleet commander does not come with a fleet reroll but may purchase up to two Astromancer rerolls that are allocated to specific squadrons during deployment.

One Astromancer reroll.....25pts
Two Astromancer rerolls.....50pts

Capitalships
Battleships
You may include one Battleship for every 2 Cruisers
Tombship........500pts

0-12 Cruisers
Scythe/Reaper.......250pts
Shroud........175pts

Escorts
You may have any number of escorts in your fleet.
Jackal.........55pts
Dirge..........40pts


Campaign Rules

Necron Dynasties are a Battlefleet with an Attack Rating of 2

Necron Promotion Table
1-10 Renown: Lord (Ld8) 0 rerolls
11-20 Renown: Overlord (Ld8) 1 reroll
21-30 Renown: Nemesor (Ld9) 1 reroll
31-50 Renown: Nemesor (Ld9) 1 reroll (One random Cryptek upgrade on your flagship)
51+ Renown: Phaeron (Ld9) 2 rerolls (One random Cryptek upgrade on your flagship)

Ship Experience

Necrons gain and lose experience like any normal fleet but cannot gain crewskills, instead they may gain Cryptek Augments in the same manner.

Cryptek Augmentation table
1: Eytomancy, (navigation)  Roll 3D6 and discard the highest when attempting Come to New Heading and Burn Retros special orders.

2: Plasmancers, (destruction) Roll 3D6 and discard the highest when attempting Lock-on special orders.
3: Psychomancy, (despair) +1 Teleporter attack. Teleporter attacks may cause -1 leadership until repaired instead of a successful critical. Choose after you have rolled. 
4: Ethermancers, (Storm) Lightning arcs maybe aimed at ordnance benefiting from a left shift on the gunnery table when doing so. 
5: Geomancers, (transmogrification) Roll 3D6 and discard the highest when attempting BFI special orders. 
6: Chronomancers, (eternity) autopass leadership check, declare before rolling.

Systems and Repair values
After setting up the Subsector map the Necron player only discovers the Necron presence in each system as he secures them.
Once any Necron player takes a system for the first time he must roll on the following table to determine its worth.
1-3: Huskworld. Counts as unihabitated.
4-5: Fringeworld. Counts as Mining.
6: Coreworld. Counts as Civilised.
Starting World: Crownworld. Counts as Forge or Hive.
The First world the Necron Player starts with is a CrownWorld, no matter what it counts as to the other players.
The only exception to this is when the Necron player is capturing a Civilised, Hive or Forge world, in which case it is a Slaveworld and counts as a Penal Colony for a Civilised Worlds and 2 Penal Colonies for Hive or Forge Worlds.

Reinforcements, Withdrawls and the Flayer Virus
When recieving a capital ship as a reinforcement or returning from being fully repaired, roll a D6 on a roll of a 1 the ship has been contaminated with the Flayer Virus.
A ship contaminated with the Flayer Virus cannot be squadroned but gains +1 to its teleporter hit and run attacks and +1 to its boarding value.


Refits
Necrons may use the normal refit table with the following changes:
Ship Refit 1, The ship has +1 Ld.
Weapons Refit 3, Lightning Arcs may target any ship in range after a successful leadership test.
Weapons Refit 6, If the ship becomes crippled it does not halve it's weaponary.



Cutting Room Floor:

Nightmare field.
(The fluff no longer supports this, not that it really did in the first place)

Lightning Arcs being closing WBs that ignore holofields.
(Ignoring holofields is just a hate crime, it's unnecessary!)


Star Pulse Generator.
(This is no longer supported by fluff, also with the introduction of shields and drop of special rules concerning BM's it'd be a little weird aswell.
In addition it was rather too large an area effect).

Particle Whips ignoring shields on a 6+ to hit.
(Only going through shields on a 6 means that only 1 in 3 hits goes through shields meaning that 2 hits would hit shields. Against cruisers this does nothing on average.
Against highly shielded targets it can be nice for chipping damage but if you want to cause more than one point of damage a turn you're looking at dropping all its shields anyway!
Only against escorts does this really come into play and even then its not that noticeble, 3 hits basically counts as 4 against escorts (+25% damage) assuming they're not in base contact or already have their shields down.
This needed to be improved (going through shields against armour) or dropped as it's a rule with no real benefit in a fleet already heavy with special rules).

Portals being teleporter attacks.
(The fluff doesn't really support this, but with them becoming launch bays they shouldn't be too complicated).

Unique Critical table.
(Now that Necrons have shields and specified weapon locations there is no need).

Repairing criticals on a 4+.
(I've opted for a reroll instead as this instills a sense of reliability but also makes them a little more balanced against assualt boats).

Immunity to Blastmarkers and related cellestial phenomenon.
(Now that Necrons have shields there is no need for these extra rules).

Armour Saves.
(Other than not needing saves due to the introduction of shields, saves are an extra stage of unreliability unsuited to such an advanced race, especially in a game that keeps as few stages of dice rolls as possible.
This is further exaggerated by the fact Necrons have 6+ armour.
Also having 6+ saves and to a lesser extent 5+ saves, the effect of unreliability is once again increased).

BFI save 2+, reducing armour to 4+.
(Well this had fluff invented to give the Necrons a weakness so as armour saves are gone there is no need to keep it).

AAF D6x10cm, can turn every 20cm.
(A single dice roll determining such a massive effect once again gives Necrons an undeserved sense of unreliability.
However even if it were 2 D6 pick the highest it would be too powerful and 2 D6 pick the lowest it would be too similar to the normal AAF average distance.
Another clunky aspect of this mechanic is that you are left with gaps of 10cm where it is impossible for you to end up in, pretty odd for BFG. I suppose it could have been an upper limit to move to, but then it would end up being too powerful.

Automatic disengaging.
(The Shroud has a bonus that replaces the need for this. Also fluff doesn't support it anymore, they're too honourable or arrogant and 'phasing out' a ship doesn't have the go to button anymore).

Special Victory Points.
(This was never a good idea as it doesn't cover all scenarios).

Half Repair Points in camapigns.
(New Campaign rules have taken it's place).

No fleet Commander.
(Fluff upgrade ives the Necrons fleet commanders).

Leadership normal, or +1.
(Having a more grounded scale of leadership suits the Necrons more,
only slightly being better than the norm seems about right).

Leadership upgrade for the Tombship.
(The fleet Commander offers the same).

Unlocalised rerolls (no 'free' reroll).
(Limiting the number of rerolls and specifying where they can be used enphasizes the Necrons lack or intiative).

Tombship limited by one Scythe(Reaper).
(This limitation was okay when the Tombship didn't have shields, but things change).

Name of the Scythe Cruiser changed to Reaper.
(This is a fluff update)



Quantum shields, shields that increase the armour value from 5+ to 6+ until knocked down.
(Upscaling Quantum shields in such a dramatic manner is a little abstract.
It's far better to think of quantum shields as being part of the shields and armour value.
Overall the Mechanic is quite clunky and needs a fair bit of explaining and as such isn't really worth the effort).

No mimimum movement.
No mimimum movement before turning.
(Having such good manueverability as standard not only steps on the toes of Dark Eldar and Eldar
but gave no good reason to use movement special orders and by extension using the characterful Inertialess drive).

Inerialess drive also allowing extra AAF movement, free turn on CTNH, Reverse on Burn Retros.
(These extra rules just added too much padding to the mechanic and aren't aren't really neccessary).

Flayer Virus, A Necron ship with leadership 7 has the flayer virus having a +1 to Hit and Run attacks from its teleporter attacks.
(This just made the flayer virus too common).

Lightning arcs able to jump to other targets.
Lightning Arcs are a Gunnery Weapon that hits the weakest armour facing. If hitting the Prow the target counts as closing, the aft counts as moving away and broadsides counts as abeam.
(These Mechanics aren't neccessary to make Lightning arcs distinct and aren't fully supported by existing fluff).

Gauss Batteries, Gunnery weapon that ignores armour only hitting on 6's. All targets count as closing.
(There is just no need for another special gunnery weapon, even if the mechanic works fine, simple and fits fluff). 

Attack craft having faster than normal speeds.
(There is no background to support this, and no game reason to do so).

Scythe being a Fighter/Assualt boat(when shields are down).
Tombblade being a Fighter/Bomber (only causing damage on 6s).
(Having such weak AC means you need alot to be effective, and even if every Cruiser had the maximum number of launch bays this wouldn't be the case.
If Necrons are going to have AC it should be as good as the norm, or better).

Launch bay Portals linked to teleporter attacks.
(This just gets a little confusing, isn't really supported by the fluff and is far better represented by having a blanket rule for all Necron Capital ships).

Portals are Launch bays that offer only half to the attack craft limit (Per weapon entry rounding down).
(The reasoning for this was to prevent a Necron fleet from having an above average ammount of AC, but as the ships cost above average and can't have more launchbays that the norm, it wasn't needed). 

Portals allow attack craft including Canoptek Swarms upto the number of portals to relaunch instead moving normally per ordnance phase.
(This got a little too complicated, relaunching them for free is far easier to understand and does roughly the same thing).

Scarab swarms/hives changed to Canoptiek swarms/hives.
(Fluff update)

Moving Minefields (Scarab/Canoptik swarms).
(Having Canoptek Swarms replace orbital mines is fine. There is no need to have a moving minefield that would for the most part end up too powerful an orbital defence.

Regenerating hits (when repairing criticals).
(This negates the need to capture worlds in campaigns which make them rather goaless. This doesn't have to be too powerful but combined with other Necron special rules it would make them too special/expensive).

Speeds changed: Tombship 20cm to 25cm, Shroud 30cm to 35cm. Jackal 40cm to 35m, Dirge 50cm to 40cm.
(The speed of the fleet shouldn't have jumps of 10cm, it doesn't feel right because of the inertialess drive but more importantly it makes the slower ships a massive handicap).

Sepulchre Upgrades Tombships and Shrouds may take a Sepulchre upgrade each as explained in their notes.
Stealth: All ships within 15cm don't offer a bonus to enemy command checks due to enemy constacts. In addition the Shroud counts as cellestial phenomenon for Necron ships when disengaging.
Sensors: Necrons within 15cm gain +1 Leadership for command checks if any enemy is on special orders. In addition any enemy wishing to disengage within 15cm of the Shroud suffers -3 to its leadership (including the normal -1 for being an enemy ship).
Canoptek Hives: One Canoptek Swarm maybe launched per turn as long as the ship is not braced or crippled. Instead of launching a swarm any ship within 10cm gains D6 repair dice. 
(having multiple options as separate upgrades doesn't work so well as the +1ld upgrade is useful all the time where as the stealth ability greatly depends on the enemy and circumstances of the battle and so you'll usually pick the leadership upgrade as default).
(as for the Canoptek swarms, they are just too different from the other upgrades. Having them only on the shroud balances them and has a nice parallel with the 40k army as Tombspyders).


Fleet Comparison:
Necrons seem most similar to Chaos (weapon layout) or Dark Eldar (Speed/power), or maybe SMs (armour, short range)

The Tombship's closest relative is the Chaos Planet Killer or SM Battle Barge.
The PK is a bit of a freak though, it's points and role being strange.
The Battle Barge has roughly the same ranged capability. The Tombship is tougher and faster but doesn't have the SM bonus's, but does have a Sepulchre. 500pts almost seems too much for this.
450-500pts is where it's going to land. 


The Reaper's closest relative is the Chaos Styx or Slaughter.
Less firepower than a Styx. (Dorsal/prow weapons being roughly equal plus 4 launch bays, so 2 Lbs short)
Or about the same as a Slaughter its just that it's LFR and not in both broadsides.
Armour 6+ isn't cheap but 250pts should be a good starting point.

The Shroud's is like a DE Cruiser or a SM SC (kinda, it's pretty special).
175pts is about the value I'd like the Shroud to fall into. It's Sepluchre is hard to point.

The Dirge and Jackal are very much like the DE escorts. Escorts are har to point individually, it's better to point them as a squadron.
Also the escorts are pretty much the only viable target for H&R attacks. Fighters on CAP are going to be important, that portal on the Jackal is going to be worth alot (also relaunching Canoptek swarms!).
I'm going to go for a squadron of 3 and 3, the Dirge are bullet shields, we have 2 portal Jackals and a Jackal with Str5 Lightning Arcs. This gives the 20 Lightning Arcs and 2 portals. Costing 270pts.   

[AndrewChristlieb]

Do you want posts in here or just in the other thread? Most of this sounds good, there's a few things I'm not too hot on but nothing I can't live with and its been gone over before. A few things tho. On the portals with the standardized attack craft can we get them to come into play loaded? This is just an unusual change that doesn't seem needed. Also on the sepulchre I'd just make it have those abilities without having to have people make the choice, it will streamline it and honestly there doesn't seem to be much reason to make it an either or choice. On the hive/forge worlds I think just doubling the result for a penal maybe a bit better than doing 2 separate rolls just to streamline it. On the crew skills table does the left shift for lightning arcs always apply, or just when firing against ordnance? I would be inclined to lean towards always on as just against ordnance seems pretty limited. I'm still against thge critical hits being weakened so much it is really hard to get a critical and now you have taken 3 and made them worthless, what's worse is that these are some of the best to get . If your dead set on taking a quarter of the results off the chart then it needs to be easier to get a critical hit.

[commander]

Not happy with some points but those have been already discussed in the other topic.
repair: rerolls? I thought rerolls have to be avoided? Extra dice or better scores do that.
Critical hits: as they have no life support system, there is no decompression that kills more crew. Same for fire criticals. Although I would say that a bulkhead collapse would result in a bit more damage to the hull, lets say a +D3?
Launch bays are a bit unusual, but are OK IMO. Just like the nightscythe that has to 'wormhole in' their passengers if they must disembark; think invasion beams as in the codex.
Lightning arcs: no longer dividable between fire arcs?
Scythe, night scythe, tomb blade: I would only use the tomb blade as a fighter/bomber, resilient or difficult to target (by other fighter craft and turrets). Their AC are not as diverse as those of other fleets.
Fleet remarks later but one quick question:
Flayer virus as a cryptek upgrade??? Really??? It's a contamination, not an upgrade. No cryptek would do something THAT stupid. I would introduce it as a discount in point cost for all ships.

[Taggerung]

Seems a bit OP to me...

[commander]

Seems a bit OP to me...

They already have that kind of firepower. Only now it has been given 'locations' and the possible exchange of WB for (limited capacity) launch bays.

[commander]

Tombship
Type: Battleship, Hits: 12, Speed: 25cm, Turns: 45*, Shields: 4, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 4
Dorsal Particle Whip, 5, 45cm, LFR 
Prow Lightning Arc, 6, 30cm, LFR
In addition Choose one of the following sets of broadsides:
Starboard Lightning Arc, 7, 30cm, LFR
Port Lightning Arc, 7, 30cm, LFR
OR
Starboard Portals, 3
Port Portals, 3
Notes: +5D6cm on AAF, The Tombship also has a Sepulchre.

Maybe:
Prow lightning arc, 8, 30 cm, LFR
In addition Choose one of the following sets of broadsides:
Starboard Lightning Arc, 6, 30cm, LFR
Port Lightning Arc, 6, 30cm, LFR
OR
Starboard Portals, max of 3, 1 per FP2
Port Portals,  max of 3, 1 per FP2

Allows for more variation as each overlord/nemesor/pharaon has his own personal quirks.

Reaper
Type: Cruiser, Hits: 8, Speed: 30cm, Turns: 45*, Shields: 2, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 3
Dorsal Particle Whip, 3, 45cm, LFR
Prow Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
In addition Choose one of the following sets of broadsides:
Starboard Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
Port Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
OR
Starboard Portals, 2
Port Portals, 2
Notes: +5D6cm on AAF.

Portals: as above for switching LB against FP

Shroud
Type: Cruiser, Hits: 6, Speed: 35cm, Turns: 90*, Shields: 1, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 2
Starboard Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
Port Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
In addition Choose one of the following Prow Weapons:
Prow Lightning Arc, 4, 30cm, LFR
Prow Portals, 2
Prow Canoptek Hive, 1
Notes: +6D6cm on AAF. The Shroud also has a Sepulchre.

Portals: as above for switching LB against FP

Dirge
Type: Escort, Hits: 1, Speed: 35cm, Turns: 90*, Shields: 1, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 2
Lightning Arc, 3, 30cm, LFR
Portal, 1
Notes: +6D6cm on AAF, May replace Portal with Str 2 Lightning Arcs.


Jackal
Type: Escort, Hits: 1, Speed: 40cm, Turns: 90*, Shields: 1, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 1
Lightning Arc, 3, 30cm, LFR
Notes: +6D6cm on AAF


Stasis Ship (Transport)
Type: Escort, Hits: 1, Speed: 25cm, Turns: 90*, Shields: 1, Armour: 6+, Turrets: 1
Lightning Arc, 3, 15cm, LFR
Notes: +4D6cm on AAF, counts as 2 Transports, (-1 leadership as normal transports) may not be squadroned.

[RayB HA]

Hi Guys,

I've played a full playtest against a Necron player with a 1500pt chaos fleet and a few things came up.

Portal Launch bays: Portals aren't like normal launch bays as the AC aren't in the ship, they come from a tombworld or somewhere similar.
As you can't keep them loaded you can't launch AC when on movement special orders (or any special orders). You also have to reload to launch them the first time. This was suprisingly interesting to play with. It's just a slight tweak to the normal rules but really changes how the launch bays feel.

Tombship: What a monster! Using all lightning arcs this nightmare was killing 2 braced cruisers in as many turns.
I'm tempted to add a Canoptek Hive to its load out, this wouldn't replace anything. Having a Canoptek Hive on 2 ship classes makes it feel more of a legitimate weapon. But it also seemed strange that it didn't have one.

Particle whips: These are terrorfying, but I would say they're balanced (just about). Particle whips more often than not go through Chaos shields when they hit but they didn't seems to be unbalanced (as I had also reduced their number). Changing going through shields on a 6+ to against the armour value has changed this from a barely felt quirk to a weapon worthy of dread. Particle whips are awesome! 

Inertialess Drive: This worked out really nicely. Especially for the Tombship! Strangely enough it was Burn Retros that was used the most. CTNH with the Tombship is a sight to behold though, even though this lead to its crippling when attacked with torps and bombers the following turn (failed to brace against the torps which then hit over the odds).

Sepulchre: Chosing at the start of each Necron turn worked out great, but i do suggest using a coin or counter to signify which is in use (heads for sensors, tails for stealth). Stealth really came into play when disengaging but also caused a failed command check. Otherwise the +1 ld from enemy contacts was a blessing with their average leadership and dependance on special orders. Localised rerolls really felt weak, but I guess that's the point.

Criticals: This came into it a number of times and gave a great sense of durability. Completely ignoring hull breach and bulkhead collapse maybe going to far (even though it is so unlikely), how about half damage rounding down? (this could also work as the standard rule).

More later, cheers,

RayB HA

[AndrewChristlieb]

so on hull breach 1d3/2 giving a result of 0-2 how about just +1 damage? and bulkhead collapse 1d6/2 giving 1-3 how about just +2 damage

I like Commanders idea on the weapon slots also, much like tyranids. Your looking at 3 slots on the tomb with either 1 launch bay or 2 lighting arcs and 2 slots on the cruisers correct? could lead to some interesting combos.

The Dirges portal is standard as launch bay also then correct? It can reload and launch and counts against ordinance limits along with re-positioning ordnance?

Add a Lord to your campaign chart:

Necron Promotion Table
1-10 Renown:  Lord (Ld8) 0 rerolls
11-25 Renown: Overlord (Ld8) 1 reroll
26-50 Renown: Nemesor (Ld9) 1 reroll
51+ Renown: Phaeron (Ld9) 2 rerolls

I still feel there should be a bit extra on these tho :\?

Necron Promotion Table
1-10 Renown:  Lord (Ld8) 0 rerolls
11-20 Renown: Overlord (Ld8) 1 reroll
21-30 Renown: Nemesor (Ld9) 1 reroll
31-50 Renown: Nemesor (Ld9) 1 reroll (royal court 1 additional lord maybe placed on any necron ship and grants a +1 bonus to leadership)
51+ Renown: Phaeron (Ld10) 2 rerolls(royal court 1 additional lord maybe placed on any necron ship and grants a +1 bonus to leadership)

Still not as many levels as standard but still not so under powered compared to the other races higher level commanders while fitting in with the fluff.

On the Sepulchre how often did you have a conflict as to which one you wanted to use and how difficult was the choice? If it doesn't conflict often I still think it should be removed as an option and just have both "on" all the time.

Sepulchre Upgrades
Tombships and Shrouds come equipped with a device called a Sepulchre that contains a highly advanced sensor and Electronic countermeasures suite that grants several bonuses to themselves and their allies while masking them from enemy sensors.

All friendly ships within 15cm of the Sepulchre don't offer a bonus to enemy command checks due to enemy contacts and gain  +1 Leadership for command checks if any enemy is on special orders. Additionally the Shroud/Tombship counts as cellestial phenomenon for friendly ships when disengaging while any enemy wishing to disengage within 15cm of the Sepulchre suffers -3 to its leadership (including the normal -1 for being an enemy ship).


Just streamlined the rules into one and modified it so that any friendly ships would be included in the bonus seeing how they're somewhat more cuddly than before.

[Taggerung]

Seems a bit OP to me...

They already have that kind of firepower. Only now it has been given 'locations' and the possible exchange of WB for (limited capacity) launch bays.

Exactly, and Necrons have always been OP. A Tombship which is basically unpossible to destroy if braced against any real damage, that only requires 2 cruisers (Less than any other fleet, most require at least 3 cruisers) to bring is silly. "Come to New heading, All Ahead Full and Burn Retros special orders do not half firepower" Those rules need to be removed for the Tombships. No single ship should be able to go through 2 shields and 8 braced hitpoints in a single turn...especially not for 500 pts.

[commander]

bad rolls for bracing?

[AndrewChristlieb]

On average your looking @ 18 hits to take down a braced cruiser 1 turn. The PK@ 505 is no where near as tough as the tomb ship but averages the same hit more with torps, assuming a direct hit with the Agun and an average roll of 4 locked on with 12 weps and 6 lances = 11 hits average vs armor 5 for a total of 15 hits less 2 for shields is 7 after brace rolls (all figures rounded up within 15 closing capitol). The original version tombship 20 wb = 10 hits and 6 lances = 5 total 15 so the same as the pk. The new tomb on average 20 wb = 10 hits and 5 lances = 4 total 14 one less :/ in theory should be slightly weaker overall so I'm guessing you had a good couple of turns attacking while your friend had a bad couple of braces.

Edit: an Emperor can get about 14 hits against a 2 turret cruiser with a full load of bombers and its weapons on average with the same conditions and weighs in significantly cheaper.

[Sigoroth]

On average your looking @ 18 hits to take down a braced cruiser 1 turn. The PK@ 505 is no where near as tough as the tomb ship but averages the same hit more with torps, assuming a direct hit with the Agun and an average roll of 4 locked on with 12 weps and 6 lances = 11 hits average vs armor 5 for a total of 15 hits less 2 for shields is 7 after brace rolls (all figures rounded up within 15 closing capitol). The original version tombship 20 wb = 10 hits and 6 lances = 5 total 15 so the same as the pk. The new tomb on average 20 wb = 10 hits and 5 lances = 4 total 14 one less :/ in theory should be slightly weaker overall so I'm guessing you had a good couple of turns attacking while your friend had a bad couple of braces.

Eh, average total hits of a locked-on PK with a 5+ armour capital ship target within 15cm dead ahead would be 14.11 hits from direct fire, and another 2.36 hits from the torps, assuming the PK was reloaded. This gives a total hit count of 16.47 hits. Subtracting 2 then halving for BFI we get an average of 7.24 hits. This goes up to 7.97 after you factor in damage from critical hits. So a fully loaded PK on LO can destroy a braced 8 hit, 2 shield, 2 turret, 5+ armour cruiser a little under 50% of the time when it's within 15cm, prow on, and directly in front of the PK. This does not account for ancillary hits caused by the left over torpedoes, further A-gun hits or potential collateral damage from an exploding ship, let alone the extra 6WB broadside the PK has left over.

The Tombship will only output 13.75 hits on average when locked on at close range against 5+ armour. This only equates to ~6.49 hits (after crits) against a braced cruiser. So the PK in optimal position is better than the Tombship. However, I think the objection comes from the fact that the Tombship finds itself in optimal position far more often than the PK. It is faster, with a faster AAF, and does not lose firepower on the movement SO's, allowing it to position itself much more effectively. Also, it does not have such an extremely limiting fire arc on any weapony (no A-gun equivalent limitation) and, much more importantly, does not care for the aspect of the target. For the PK to get such a prime target it would have to be facing something like a Murder or Carnage or other Chaos cruiser. Perhaps a Hero that had its deflector knocked out by a H&R attack, or a Nid cruiser. No mean feat. The Tombship on the other hand merely needs to get in any arc that has 5+ armour. Its weapons count it as closing. So a close pass of just about any enemy cruiser in a traditional broadside engagement would do. In fact, the Tombship would be presenting an abeam aspect to any return fire. The PK would be necessarily prow on.

A PK attempting something similar would get 18WB + 6L + 9T (if loaded) at an abeam 5+ target at close range. This gives 9.5 hits from direct fire, and another 2.22 hits from the torps, for a total of 11.72 hits or 5.37 hits after brace saves and crits. Let's face it, this is pretty much as good as it gets for the PK normally. No one parks in front of it so it usually has to choose between manoeuvring to line up its A-gun or going on LO. Unless there's a gravity well nearby of course. Similarly you usually have to choose between broadsides and A-gun. So it's usually full broadside locked on, or prow capable guns + A-gun, not locked on. Lastly, you're not going to be able to consistently LO and have reloaded torps and when you do, a single fighter on CAP can really spoil your damage output.

The Tombship's better armour and special rules also tends to put it above the PK in survivability, despite the hit difference. Given that the PK is considered a touch cheesy at 505 pts (though tolerable because you can only ever bring 1 to the table) I think that at 500 pts there's some merit to the call of OP. Can you imagine facing 2 of them in a 2k fleet?

Edit: an Emperor can get about 14 hits against a 2 turret cruiser with a full load of bombers and its weapons on average with the same conditions and weighs in significantly cheaper.

Eh? What? How? Oh, I get it, you're talking what's possible, not what's average. I see. On average however, the Emperor would get 7.78 hits from direct fire and 3.4 hits from a wave of 1f7b for a total of 11.18 hits. Assuming that the target was a closing cruiser with a 5+ prow and within 15cm and the Emperor was both reloaded and locked on. This translates to ~5 hull hits all up, including shields, saves and crits. While the Emperor only costs 73% of the Tombship it can put out roughly 77% of the firepower in optimal conditions. However, those optimal conditions are extremely rare for the Emperor, though relatively normal for Tombships, and the Tombship is significantly tougher.

[commander]

PK is an exterminator. Replace that A-gun with normal weaponry. Imagine the FP it would have. Now make the calculations.

[Sigoroth]

PK is an exterminator. Replace that A-gun with normal weaponry. Imagine the FP it would have. Now make the calculations.

Er, no.

[Taggerung]

On average your looking @ 18 hits to take down a braced cruiser 1 turn. The PK@ 505 is no where near as tough as the tomb ship but averages the same hit more with torps, assuming a direct hit with the Agun and an average roll of 4 locked on with 12 weps and 6 lances = 11 hits average vs armor 5 for a total of 15 hits less 2 for shields is 7 after brace rolls (all figures rounded up within 15 closing capitol). The original version tombship 20 wb = 10 hits and 6 lances = 5 total 15 so the same as the pk. The new tomb on average 20 wb = 10 hits and 5 lances = 4 total 14 one less :/ in theory should be slightly weaker overall so I'm guessing you had a good couple of turns attacking while your friend had a bad couple of braces.

Eh, average total hits of a locked-on PK with a 5+ armour capital ship target within 15cm dead ahead would be 14.11 hits from direct fire, and another 2.36 hits from the torps, assuming the PK was reloaded. This gives a total hit count of 16.47 hits. Subtracting 2 then halving for BFI we get an average of 7.24 hits. This goes up to 7.97 after you factor in damage from critical hits. So a fully loaded PK on LO can destroy a braced 8 hit, 2 shield, 2 turret, 5+ armour cruiser a little under 50% of the time when it's within 15cm, prow on, and directly in front of the PK. This does not account for ancillary hits caused by the left over torpedoes, further A-gun hits or potential collateral damage from an exploding ship, let alone the extra 6WB broadside the PK has left over.

The Tombship will only output 13.75 hits on average when locked on at close range against 5+ armour. This only equates to ~6.49 hits (after crits) against a braced cruiser. So the PK in optimal position is better than the Tombship. However, I think the objection comes from the fact that the Tombship finds itself in optimal position far more often than the PK. It is faster, with a faster AAF, and does not lose firepower on the movement SO's, allowing it to position itself much more effectively. Also, it does not have such an extremely limiting fire arc on any weapony (no A-gun equivalent limitation) and, much more importantly, does not care for the aspect of the target. For the PK to get such a prime target it would have to be facing something like a Murder or Carnage or other Chaos cruiser. Perhaps a Hero that had its deflector knocked out by a H&R attack, or a Nid cruiser. No mean feat. The Tombship on the other hand merely needs to get in any arc that has 5+ armour. Its weapons count it as closing. So a close pass of just about any enemy cruiser in a traditional broadside engagement would do. In fact, the Tombship would be presenting an abeam aspect to any return fire. The PK would be necessarily prow on.

A PK attempting something similar would get 18WB + 6L + 9T (if loaded) at an abeam 5+ target at close range. This gives 9.5 hits from direct fire, and another 2.22 hits from the torps, for a total of 11.72 hits or 5.37 hits after brace saves and crits. Let's face it, this is pretty much as good as it gets for the PK normally. No one parks in front of it so it usually has to choose between manoeuvring to line up its A-gun or going on LO. Unless there's a gravity well nearby of course. Similarly you usually have to choose between broadsides and A-gun. So it's usually full broadside locked on, or prow capable guns + A-gun, not locked on. Lastly, you're not going to be able to consistently LO and have reloaded torps and when you do, a single fighter on CAP can really spoil your damage output.

The Tombship's better armour and special rules also tends to put it above the PK in survivability, despite the hit difference. Given that the PK is considered a touch cheesy at 505 pts (though tolerable because you can only ever bring 1 to the table) I think that at 500 pts there's some merit to the call of OP. Can you imagine facing 2 of them in a 2k fleet?

Edit: an Emperor can get about 14 hits against a 2 turret cruiser with a full load of bombers and its weapons on average with the same conditions and weighs in significantly cheaper.

Eh? What? How? Oh, I get it, you're talking what's possible, not what's average. I see. On average however, the Emperor would get 7.78 hits from direct fire and 3.4 hits from a wave of 1f7b for a total of 11.18 hits. Assuming that the target was a closing cruiser with a 5+ prow and within 15cm and the Emperor was both reloaded and locked on. This translates to ~5 hull hits all up, including shields, saves and crits. While the Emperor only costs 73% of the Tombship it can put out roughly 77% of the firepower in optimal conditions. However, those optimal conditions are extremely rare for the Emperor, though relatively normal for Tombships, and the Tombship is significantly tougher.

Wow never thought I would ever do this. +1

Thank you Sigoroth for your well put together post. The idea of facing 2 tomb ships in 2000 points is scary, but the fact that you could face 2 of them at 1750 is even more terrifying.
(4 x Shrouds with 2 Tombships and 1 admiral is 1750 exactly actually)