Necron Dynasties

[RayB HA]

Zelnik,

I don't feel the HA has failed, I don't feel as though we've succeded as much as I'd like either.  Without GW support it's difficult, afterall they have no pressing need to keep the specialist games alive!
One of their primary goals is to make as much 'profit' as is sensible/viable. Something that wasn't really at the core of GW a decade ago, as they were still running it like a privately owned company: just after as much money as healthily possible rather than abstract percential profits.      

Anyways, I am writting this Necron list as a community project. So I'll edit it and try and come up with something everyone is happy with. I'm not afraid to bow to comunity sanity. 

Cheers,

RayB HA

[RayB HA]

Hi all,

I've had a few ideas I want to throw out there:

Portals are the key to the new character of the fleet in my opinion. I want them to act as launch bays that are capable of redeploying AC instead of the AC moving normally, this is in either players ordnance phases. Each portal would only be able to redeploy one AC marker per phase, however you could use this redeployment to make new waves!
If portals aren't used in this manner they can perform teleport attacks in the ordnance phase. This can be done conventionally or through a Scythe marker, this does not expend the Scythe marker, however turrets may still shoot it down.
Ecorts with portals wouldn't add to the AC limit but would be able to get CAP from any where on the board!


Tombblades: instead of making these normal fighter bombers I think it would be better to give them the full D6 attack runs but can only cause damage on a 6+, this makes them more viable a choice. This fits better with how Necron Gauss tech acts in 40k as well.

Shrouds should be more prominent as we have so few models to work with. I like the idea of making them 'Crypteky', so special bonus to the fleet or just a squadron, or negatives to the enemy. This thing needs 6 hits! Perhaps portals that don't add to the AC limit.

Leadership should be 1 point higher than normal. The flayer virus giving capital ships with leadership 7 or lower a +1 boarding modifier. I feel as though Necrons shouldn't get the bonus for enemy contacts at all, sensing enemies at all times but not caring too much. This could be a shroud bonus.

Quantum shielding should effect ordy aswell. So Ordy will hit on a 6+ if the shields are up but on a 5+ if they are down. (obviously A-boats don't care)

Critical hits should come from the normal table, however due to the living metal special rule they do not take further damage due to crits, including fires. A Reroll to the repair dice would make sense as well.

Scythe Cruiser it would be good to rename this, even though it is a cool name its been stolen by the fighters.

Particle Whips Should go through shields when they beat armour. Roll for each ships particle whip seperately, taking damage and rolling to cause crits before allocating the rest of the hits to the shields if there are any. This will actually allow them to do something with their special rule especially against escorts. The Cruiser should have front only particle whips, giving the tombship the only LFR ones.

Lightning arcs I feel lightning arcs shouldn't be able to hit ordy unless there are no other viable targets. But perhaps get a reroll?

Cheers,

Ray
 

[RayB HA]

On the point of FTL, they have to use FTL even if its not as fast as warp travel. Without it you could destroy the necrons one world at a time and they wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it! Basically a campaign, where the Necron player only gets one turn ever.

Inertialess drives are cool. Although I think they should involve CTNH. Perhaps something not too powerful, like the extra turn taking place at anytime.

Cheers,

Ray

[AndrewChristlieb]

Inertialess drives are already represented by aaf. On the critical hit idea I would agree that the standard (or a variation of it) could work but if you take away the damage what will 7 10 11 and 12 do? Shrouds already add +1 to leadership tests for ships on special orders, maybe add one portal and let it count as a launch bay. Launch from portals, ok so they can recall and launch in the same turn without reload? I think that's about it for now...

[Zelnik]

Okay, lets go point by point. I am ASSUMING Ray, that you will actually listen to our advice instead of railroading us like Battlefleet Bakka.

Portals: I -really- don't see a need to combine these two together. If you want to show the technological advancement of the Necrons, make their fighters move 35, their bombers go 25. Keep the ordnance numbers low (probably around 4 max for a battleship scale vessel)

Tombblades: Make them skilled bombers or move 25.  There is NO reason to fuck around with new rules when we can work easily within the guidelines provided.

Shrouds: They already are pretty damn important, compensating for an unlucky leadership roll.  and having one heck of a potent battery for a 4 hit cruiser. I would suggest increasing it's hits to 6 though.

Leadership: There is zero basis of this in the fluff, Especially now. Considering that the tomb ship can get a guaranteed LD 10 with a 50 point upgrade now, there is really no need to give an already amazing fleet even better LD. 

Quantum Shielding: Simply replace "Living metal" with "Quantum Shielding" and keep the same rules, again, there is NO reason to change it.

Critical Hits: By bringing it down to the normal table, you are also bringing the most technologically advanced race down to the same scale as other young races. This is possibly the least inspired idea in the list, since the Necron table is already extremely punishing when it comes to LD values.

Scythe: I agree, a new name is in store.  Hardly a difficult thing, just find something suitably impressive

Particle Whips: Why are you screwing with something that doesn't need to be meddled with??

Lightning Arc:This argument makes NO sense at all. It's LIGHTNING.  IT FORKS. 


I honestly don't see what you are trying to do here, Ray. Do you even have a goal for the remade fleet??

[horizon]

Shrouds: They already are pretty damn important, compensating for an unlucky leadership roll.  and having one heck of a potent battery for a 4 hit cruiser. I would suggest increasing it's hits to 6 though.

Currently the Shroud is weak, poor, give away.

[commander]

IMO:
Portals: i would keep them as they were: teleport attacks.
AC: no need of LB, AC simply 'detach' from the mothership or (re)deployment by Ethernity gate. Not in numbers as the younger races but faster.
Ethernity gate: deployment of AC drawn from (a) tombworld(s), redeployment of AC in play, evtually forming new waves. Depleted AC phase out (contact the tombworld's gate) to be rearmed.
Scythes (AC): can initiate hit and run, as AB. also possibility to deploy scarabs and family.
Particle whip: as WB.
Tesla: in place of lightning arcs; when beating the armour value they cause additional 'x' autohits through arcing.
Gauss: lance?

Still 'working' on other stuff.

[Zelnik]

Here is an idea for the shrowd

Increase hits to 6 (make it a true 'light' cruiser)
Select one special ability

Scarab Factory: All enemy ships within 15 cm suffer an attack on the side facing the Shrowd, If it strikes, the armor value on that side is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 4.  If the armor value is already 4 on the target ship, it takes a hit and roll for critical damage as normal.  This effect ignores shields and can only be prevented by a successful brace for impact.

Cryptek Crew: The vessel gains +2 LD for enemy contacts

Canoptic Wraiths: Any ship within 15cm of the Shrowd at the end of it's movement suffers an immediate d3 hit and run attacks (this functions like a teleport attack and cannot be used if the target shields are up.)

[RayB HA]

Hi all, there's a fair amount of feedback to wade through. Thank you.

I'm going to write this list from the ground up so there won't be any assumed pre-existing special rules.

Victory point special rules are definately gone! There is no place for these in any game system where victory points don't determine a winner in every scenario!

Inertialess drives should effect turning rather than speed, a normal AAF will be fine. Just having fast ships in general should give you the taste of the inertialess drive without it being too powerful. Unless sharper turning circles is what the drives should offer. Say -5cm to the minimum you need before you turn.   

Disengagement special rules are themeful but to reduce cost of the base value of the ships this could be an upgrade for the Shroud: any ship within 30cm of a shroud may automatucally pass its leadership check to disengage, further more enemy do not gain a leadership bonus for any ship withinn 30cm of a Shroud.   

Armour saves are a little weird especially when using 6's. In any case now that Necrons have shields, dumping the armour saves is a no brainer.

Critical hits should be different but there is no need to have another critical hit table. Not suffering 'damage' from critical hits isn't hard to understand or remember, and it fits well making them adequetly resilient without having extra book keeping. They will ignore fires, hull breaches and bulkhead collapse completely, the other crits will still have their effect but won't cause further damage.
Repairing criticals seems like it needs a special rule, like a reroll or repair on a 4+, but I don't think its completely necessary. 

Leadership bonus from enemy contacts from the Shroud is quite interesting and I think it should stay as a purchasable upgrade. However I think, as I've said before that instead of having the normal EC +1 leadership for command checks, Necrons should get a straight +1 leadership at all times. This nicely represents their superior tech (they can navigate cellestial phenomenon more easily etc) and their almost disregard for the enemy. 

Blast markers don't 'need' any special rules now as they have shields and no longer cater to star vampires!

The editing stage will be long and tormenting as we are all throwing a crazy number of ideas and rules down, even if they were all good we should only have as many as are necessary.

Gauss weaponary should only be included for the tombblades, they are usually short ranged weapons in 40k not having much larger versions than those carried by jump infantry!

Tesla/Lightning arc weaponary should stick as weapons batteries, keeping it simple and just leaving them as always closing seems safe. Extra rules for arcing damage etc seems a little crazy given the distances involved, except against ordy! Perhaps a leftshift when aiming at ordy would work.   

Particle whips need to be improved or reverted to normal lances as the goes through shields on a 6+ so rarely comes into play it's not worth the hassle. I like them being special so ignoring shields when they equal or beat armour makes them happen just enough that its worth doing and isn't too powerful.
 
Portals/Eternity gates are massive teleporters and as such should be able to cause teleport hit and run attacks. However, they only really work to recall or to connect to other portals. Having them as launch bays makes the most sense, having them be able to redeploy AC makes sense too. Having nit picking rules about hit and runs through scythes, or teleport hit and runs at odd hours isn't worth the hassle. Scythes should just be able to cause hit and runs like normal assault boats, we can just assume its from a ships portal.

Cheers,

RayB   

[AndrewChristlieb]

Victory point special rules are definately gone! There is no place for these in any game system where victory points don't determine a winner in every scenario!

Ok

inertialess drives should effect turning rather than speed, a normal AAF will be fine. Just having fast ships in general should give you the taste of the inertialess drive without it being too powerful. Unless sharper turning circles is what the drives should offer. Say -5cm to the minimum you need before you turn.

How about having all ships have +1D6 on aaf; 20/30/40cm on bb/cruisers/escorts; bb can turn @10cm and MAY use ctnh, cruisers turn @ 5cm and both have 90* turns, and escorts have no minimum and can make up to 2 90*turns per movement phase or 3 with ctnh.

Disengagement special rules are themeful but to reduce cost of the base value of the ships this could be an upgrade for the Shroud: any ship within 30cm of a shroud may automatucally pass its leadership check to disengage, further more enemy do not gain a leadership bonus for any ship withinn 30cm of a Shroud. 

How about shrouds count as celestial phenomena for disengaging, allied ships only. If you want to have them... shroud (hehe) allied ships make it a blanket effect for the whole battlefield, effect is disabled when crippled/ possibly with a critical also.

Armour saves are a little weird especially when using 6's. In any case now that Necrons have shields, dumping the armour saves is a no brainer.

Replace the armor save with overload shield capacitors, quick easy and its already well established.

critical hits should be different but there is no need to have another critical hit table. Not suffering 'damage' from critical hits isn't hard to understand or remember, and it fits well making them adequetly resilient without having extra book keeping. They will ignore fires, hull breaches and bulkhead collapse completely, the other crits will still have their effect but won't cause further damage.

Repairing criticals seems like it needs a special rule, like a reroll or repair on a 4+, but I don't think its completely necessary. 

they do need their own, they should not ignore half of the results 2,5,7,11,12 have no effect?!? Keep it about the same as it is now(less the leadership -?) And make them repair on 4+ OR attempt to repair one hit point per turn they are not under fire on a 6+.

Leadership bonus from enemy contacts from the Shroud is quite interesting and I think it should stay as a purchasable upgrade. However I think, as I've said before that instead of having the normal EC +1 leadership for command checks, Necrons should get a straight +1 leadership at all times. This nicely represents their superior tech (they can navigate cellestial phenomenon more easily etc) and their almost disregard for the enemy. 

They should have standard leadership advanced tech or no they have no passion or initiative. Shroud providing a +1 to checks for the fleet might be interesting, bundled with the previously stated special rule for disengaging for crippled/ possible crit.

Blast markers don't 'need' any special rules now as they have shields and no longer cater to star vampires!

See entry on armor saves.

Gauss weaponary should only be included for the tombblades, they are usually short ranged weapons in 40k not having much larger versions than those carried by jump infantry!

Tesla/Lightning arc weaponary should stick as weapons batteries, keeping it simple and just leaving them as always closing seems safe. Extra rules for arcing damage etc seems a little crazy given the distances involved, except against ordy! Perhaps a leftshift when aiming at ordy would work.   

Particle whips need to be improved or reverted to normal lances as the goes through shields on a 6+ so rarely comes into play it's not worth the hassle. I like them being special so ignoring shields when they equal or beat armour makes them happen just enough that its worth doing and isn't too powerful.
 
Portals/Eternity gates are massive teleporters and as such should be able to cause teleport hit and run attacks. However, they only really work to recall or to connect to other portals. Having them as launch bays makes the most sense, having them be able to redeploy AC makes sense too. Having nit picking rules about hit and runs through scythes, or teleport hit and runs at odd hours isn't worth the hassle. Scythes should just be able to cause hit and runs like normal assault boats, we can just assume its from a ships portal.

Tomb blades should just be bombers no special stuff, if you want them to have gauss weapons fine they have gauss weapons... That act like bombers.

Lightning arc: per rule book except they may not target anything other than the closest ship, electricity takes the shortest route to ground, period. Targeting ordnance is as normal no special stuff here they're already pretty hard on ordnance.

Particle whip: keep the same hits of 6 is fine and not difficult to remember at all, I can't think of one time a necron player has forgotten against me . Take away the crap about holofields tho, lightning may not need to see but someone cracking a whip does!

Portals as launch bays works quite well, take away the silly extra hit and run attacks for them and make them lb. Scythes as per thunderhawk rules. Might be best to leave the portals as just lb tho, no recalling and relaunching in new waves, there's already too many ordnance special rules!

Starpulse generator is not mentioned can we assume that its gone

I'm still partial to my previous ideas about attack craft also tho, where they have no "mothership" and are just reloaded per highest leadership and launched from the necron players starting table edge.

[Dan_Lee]

I may not like the new necron fluff but I do love designing game rules, so...

Victory points: I see your point about them not mattering in some scenarios. It all depends how hard to kill the new necropn list ends up. If they are still virtually un-killable then there needs to be a reward for hurting and killing them.

Inertialess drives: reduced distance needed for turns is a good idea. Allowing the tomb ship to use CTNH seems reasonable too. A subtle change to existing mechanics is better than a totally different rule in my opinion.

Disengagement special: what exactly do you mean by "further more enemy do not gain a leadership bonus for any ship withinn 30cm of a Shroud?" If that is some sort of 30cm Ld penalty bubble that's frankly ridiculous. Being able to auto-disengage was always too good: perhaps just allow necrons to ignore penalties to Ld when disengaging (i.e. enemies nearby).

Armour saves: armour saves combined with shields is very powerful, but armour saves a very defining part of the necron fleet. Maybe have armour saves being 6+ or 3+ when braced? Better than other fleets but not a great deal better.

Critical hits: if you're not allowing them to take extra damage from criticals you need a necron critical table - too many results depend on inflicting damage to be meaningful in the normal table. Race-specific table also add character.

Repairing criticals: I'd suggest necrons be allowed to repair criticals on 5+. You could also write a necron critical table where all criticals can potentially be repaired. 

Leadership: is this +1 Ld using the regular leadership table to roll? That would be ok I guess, as they should have decent Ld. 

Blast markers: I agree there is no need for a rule if they have shields.

Gauss weaponry: not that familiar with different weapons so no opinion here (yet).

Tesla/Lightning arc: WB's that count as closing is fine.   

Particle whips: penetrating shields on a 6 is a fine rule, neither too complicated nor too simple. Negating shields when the armour is penetrated doesn't sit well with me. What about armour 4+ targets? Saying something that works on a 6 hardly happens (and should therefore be removed) is like saying space marine ships hardly ever get hit by WB's and should just be made invulnerable to them!
 
Portals/Eternity gates: can't this just be how necrons deliver their teleport attacks? No need for anything extra?

[commander]

Portals and Ethernity gates are NOT the same.
- Portals are teleporters.
- Ethernity gates draw their charges from another place altogether and (re)deploy them. Use as launch bays.

All Necron weaponry is short ranged in 40K. Only exception is the heavy gauss canon and the doomsday cannon.
I see Shipbusting versions mostly restricted to R30cm, Shipbusting version heavy gauss could be R45cm while the Shipbusting version doomsday cannon could be R60cm.
I can see the Gauss weaponry as lances and all the others as WB.

Tachyon arrow could be a very powerful long range artillery piece, needing RO special order before being able to shoot.

Inertialess drive: reduced distance before turning sounds fine but speed and AAF should be better also.

Targetting array should be advanced. Counting enemies always as closing is a good thing.

[commander]

Necron shields: 'hard' screens, protecting also against AC which have to wait with their attack(s) until the shields have been dawned.

[commander]

Necron armour: living metal. Armour 4; coupled with quantum shielding upped to 6 ('Quantum shielding damaged' should be on the critical hit table).
No armour save but living metal together with the crypteks, scarabs and wraiths result in a successful repair roll of 4+, including lost hitpoints.
Practically all criticals should be repairable.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ive been thinking about the shrouds and the idea on scarab swarms mentioned earlier. How about something like the cruiser on SINS that has a robotic cloud. maybe have it so friendly ships within 15cm gain 1 dice to repair and enemy ships suffer one hit against armor shields have no effect. *this would include ships like Tau, their 6+ front armor due to shields would be ignored*