Necron Dynasties

[Zelnik]

Ray, Would you like a ham sandwich? because it is clear you are not listening to anyone here.

Or more specifically, only to two people here.


Saves: Get over it? Just because YOU don't like it does not mean everyone else does not like it.  Also, unpredictability is a natural part of the game because we use DICE. If you want predictability, play rock paper scissors. You are suggesting to take away a simple, different mechanic for something WAY more complex.

Inertialess Drive: You contradicted yourself there. You say you don't want DE or space marine+, yet your rules just suggested the same. AAF for necrons are supposed to get escorts to their attack points quickly, and to get cruiser vessels out of tight spots. Stop trying to use it like the navy!

Lightning arc and gauss batteries: Well, your desire to make something new is certainly interesting, however it's clear you don't believe the Orks exist.  Strong work.  Also, you have not given a good reason yet to replace the current weapons systems aside from 'I want it, so I am doing it'.

Sepulchre upgrade: I admit, giving the shrowd a sepuchre would increase it's usefulness, and let you use the terror field far more often.

Pocket dimension: Die in a fire, the tombship is SUPPOSED to be the most powerful ship in the game. It is the BATTLESHIP of the MOST ADVANCED RACE IN THE GAME. It is not supposed to be cheaper or weaker then a retribution battleship!

Scarab swarms: Not a bad idea, won't question it.

Crit table: Drop it. Taking away the crit table takes away part of necrons unique.

Ray. You need to stop, right now.  This is becoming the same disaster that Bakka was when it was nothing but "My way or the highway". I have shown your suggested upgrades to my fellow players, and ALL of them think what you are doing is insane.

Quite simply, Ray... Drop it.

[commander]

Those 'two people' are offering ideas that might work within the given setup. The end product of this might be a better solution than the existing one / add some working ideas to the current fleet. 

[AndrewChristlieb]

It does seem to be dragging on quite a bit there's a lot of good ideas coming around for weapons and such and a few things with what are commonly considered flaws in the race and that's good. There is no reason to revamp the entire race tho as it all works. Now I'll admit I don't know what's up with ham sandwiches or why orks don't exist , but this is definitely well into the realm of fan fiction instead of a fleet update. The problem with the faq2010 and ultimately that this will face is that your trying to change too much of the RULES instead of working within the rules (most of them anyway). This really should be more about new weapons/ ships/ etc and less about changing the entire race.

As an aside I'm interested in seeing what gets done with them in bfg-r as so far things are looking very good there, the new DE list looks pretty interesting.

[horizon]

I am in the corner of keeping the Inertia and AAF rules as is. Because it is unique. Doesn't break the core mechanics.

The victory point table could see a change. Or some special rules for scenarios and getting win/loss against/with Necrons.

The metal save. Iffy. It is random.

I prefer scarab swarms over regular ordnance. I kinda shudder at the last bit. Ignoring 40k is best....

[commander]

I am in the corner of keeping the Inertia and AAF rules as is. Because it is unique. Doesn't break the core mechanics.

I would change inertia to NOT having to move before turning and NO minimum move/turn because of no momentum and stuff.

The victory point table could see a change. Or some special rules for scenarios and getting win/loss against/with Necrons.

The metal save. Iffy. It is random.

Agreed, but replace/correct this with what?

I prefer scarab swarms over regular ordnance. I kinda shudder at the last bit. Ignoring 40k is best....

Ah, ordnance ... 

[RayB HA]

I'm dedicating this one to Zelnik, 

Predictability: As Necrons are so far advanced of the lesser races it makes sense to have less unpredictability. There are so many ways to represent extra durability without having to resort to extra dice rolls. There is also no reason why the AAF has to be so random.

Navy+: How the hell is this Navy+? Because they have better shields*, hulls, movement, leadership, weapons*, AC? Necrons are better than everybody! (with the odd exception  )
Seriously though, every race is Navy+ in some regard.

Murdering my darlings: Come now, I'm throwing loads of ideas down, I expect that most will get snipped before we get much further into this!

Terror fields: No way! They no longer make sense. The Shroud mechanic is far better anyway. Surely you agree...

Tombship: If I somehow implied I wanted it nerfed don't worry. I have always wanted this bad boy to rival the Planet Killer in awesomeness. Perhaps it was the point limit idea for pocket dimensions? I was merely stating that you could only bring in a squadron(s) of escorts or a cruiser(s).

Crit table: The current necron crit table is ugly as sin! Especially when it is completely unnecessary!

Cheers,

RayB

[RayB HA]

I'd just like to say that I am reading everyones posts and I'm not disregarding any opinions. I haven't been posting specific replies as I'd rather see everyones opinions without having them as personal debate.

As a guide line I'd like to know if anyone disagrees with the following:

Necrons should have,
Shields,
Durability,
Normal hits to type (e.g. 8 hits for a cruiser),
Speed,
Manueverability,
Inertialess drives (enhancing movement special orders),
Special critical rules,
Special weapons,
Special teleporter rules,
Attack Craft (including scrab swarms),
Admirals,
Varying leaderships,
*and Crewskills/Refits in campaigns.

The last one is a little iffy.

Cheers,

RayB HA

[Zelnik]

You are making them move, act, and play like IN, with better toys. Hence, IN+.

Again, I do not see how their saves are random, it is an expression of just how much tougher it is to destroy their vessels that gives them a save.

I'd just like to say that I am reading everyones posts and I'm not disregarding any opinions. I haven't been posting specific replies as I'd rather see everyones opinions without having them as personal debate.

As a guide line I'd like to know if anyone disagrees with the following:

Necrons should have,
Shields,  They have something better, it's called a save.
Durability, They have this, every ship is already 6+ armor standard.
Normal hits to type (e.g. 8 hits for a cruiser), They have this. Escorts are 1 hit, Scythes are 8, shrowds are 4 (normal for light cruisers)
Speed,Obviously 30cm speed standard is not enough for you, along with the d6x10 mechanic.
Manueverability,
Inertialess drives (enhancing movement special orders), They HAVE THIS already!
Special critical rules,They already have this.
Special weapons,Should I stop talking now?
Special teleporter rules,See above.
Attack Craft (including scrab swarms),I am not convinced on attack craft, but I like the scarab swarm idea.
Admirals,If you insist, but i don't see how adding a "Phaeron" for 50 points and LD 10 with a re-roll changes how the mechanics already work.
Varying leaderships,...you ARE aware you still roll normal LD for necrons right?
*and Crewskills/Refits in campaigns.The average necron warrior does not have any sort of personality or self, and as such they do not learn, just as they are programmed to do. This is in the new codex.

The last one is a little iffy.

Cheers,

RayB HA

Ray, I appreciate what you are saying, but you may be blinded by your desire to change things... everything you want is already implemented.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Idk about the terror field? Like I said before this could just be reworded to fit the fluff as the necrons attempting to hack to enemy computers.

[Sigoroth]

I am against the notion that the Necrons should be the most advanced race. They went to sleep for millions of years while the Eldar empire rose and fell before reawakening. Given that the Eldar had their measure before they went to sleep in the first place ...

[horizon]

Hi Zelnik,

aside of agreeing, one tidbit:

Normal hits to type (e.g. 8 hits for a cruiser),
 
They have this. Escorts are 1 hit, Scythes are 8, shrowds are 4 (normal for light cruisers)

   

Light Cruisers have 6 hits or 4 hits.

In the IN the hits go like:
Battleship 12, Cruiser 8, Light cruiser 6

In the Eldar go like:
Battleship 10, Cruiser 6, Light Cruiser 4

Necrons go like:
Battleship 12, cruiser 8, light cruiser 4

Logical seen the Necron light cruiser should be 6.

[commander]

Well, new novels are under way and describe the Necrons according to the new fluff. Change is in the air, that's for sure.

[AndrewChristlieb]

That's a good point, of course there is a lot of similarity between the two. They're both faster than everyone else (in their own ways). They're both more difficult to destroy (saves hard to target etc). They both have powerful special weapons. The list goes on, point being I don't think there's so much of a difference between them tech wise.

[commander]

Not too different, I agree.
Necrons should be very advanced in 'real space' tech. In certain areas, not all, the Eldar, in their prime, could be equal or even superior, in a different way. Here I'm mostly thinking of Eldar weaponry based upon the warp, which is something the Necrons cannot equal nor understand.
Only thing is how to best represent the 'new' necron fleet.
One could hold on to the current rules disregarding the changes made to the necrons or try to develop a new ruleset for them. Both are viable.
So I will try and keep thinking of 'new ways' (without disrespect for those that want to keep playing the current rules) unless RayB drops the 'project'.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Inertaless drive. Again. . 0 min move, remove burn retros special order. Necron ships may make 1 turn at any point in their movement. Aaf, necrons on aaf special order may move from their maximum speed up to double their maximum speed. For every 20cm moved they may make an additional turn. Remove ctnh special order.

Not too bad, maybe better with a set limit instead of double the minimum tho, maybe move from their maximum up to +30cm.