BFG New to Eldar

[Pierre]

Hi all,

I'm new to BFG (and incidentally very new to a lot of the acronyms I've come across looking through this site so please don't be offended if I ask for clarification) and have decided, possibly not so wisely, to start with Eldar. Or Tau.

For now I have a few Eldar models and I wanted some tips and pointers as well as thoughts for army lists. I understand the advantages of fielding an escort heavy army and I've read the rulebooks on the GW website as well as the 2010FAQ.

So here are my first drafts for my Eldar fleet(s):

750pts- 1 Eclipse
             3 Aconites
             4 Hemlocks
             4 Nightshades

1000pts- same as above but with 2 eclipses

2000pts- Pirate prince, no re-rolls
               1 Void stalker
               2 Eclipses
               1 Shadow OR 5 Nightshades
               6 Nightshades
               6 Hemlocks
               6 Aconites

The first option is exactly 2000pts whilst without the Shadow Cruiser is 1990pts.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated 

[Sigoroth]

I'm new to BFG (and incidentally very new to a lot of the acronyms I've come across looking through this site so please don't be offended if I ask for clarification) and have decided, possibly not so wisely, to start with Eldar. Or Tau.

Well I would recommend Tau over Eldar for beginners. I personally do not recommend using official Eldar rules. I would recommend the unofficial MMS (Move Move Shoot) Eldar rules instead. This is for a few reasons. In terms of game balance the official rules are doubly broken. If you have adequate terrain as Eldar you can't lose. If you have no terrain you can't win. All other things being equal, of course. So Eldar are both too powerful and too weak at the same time. Also, the official Eldar rules break the turn based abstraction of the game. That is, they're illogical given the premise.

For now I have a few Eldar models and I wanted some tips and pointers as well as thoughts for army lists. I understand the advantages of fielding an escort heavy army and I've read the rulebooks on the GW website as well as the 2010FAQ.

So here are my first drafts for my Eldar fleet(s):

750pts- 1 Eclipse
             3 Aconites
             4 Hemlocks
             4 Nightshades

1000pts- same as above but with 2 eclipses

2000pts- Pirate prince, no re-rolls
               1 Void stalker
               2 Eclipses
               1 Shadow OR 5 Nightshades
               6 Nightshades
               6 Hemlocks
               6 Aconites

The first option is exactly 2000pts whilst without the Shadow Cruiser is 1990pts.

Your 1000 pt fleet list is not legal, since you'd need to take a Pirate Prince in games greater than 750 pts. I would recommend a re-roll at 1000 pts too, 2 re-rolls at 1500+ pts. If you're going to use the official MSM (Move Shoot Move) Eldar rules then keep in mind that you need asteroid fields, moons and planets to be competitive. As such the best battlezone you could fight in is the 5th, the Outer Reaches. I would recommend using the Strategy Rating method for determining battlezone, but I would add a 1d6 to each players total score so as to add an element of chance. Whenever you have access to defences you should choose minefields.

For MSM Corsair Eldar the Shadow is pretty rubbish, as is the Eclipse. The former can be replaced entirely by 2 Aconites and 2 Nightshades, for 20 pts less. Eldar cruisers are very fragile and the 6 hits of the cruiser isn't worth any more than the 4 hits of the escorts. The Eclipse is also pretty rubbish. It's expensive for what you get and again cruiser hit points aren't fantastic. Of the 2 Corsair Eldar (CE) light cruisers (CL) only the Aurora is at all worthwhile.

Having said that, you do need AC to protect your fleet and clear a path for your torpedoes. The Eclipse will give you the greatest ratio of AC gained for points spent. However, your only other option for AC, the Void Stalker, gives a great deal more besides. I would take 2 of them in a 2000 pt fleet. I would take a VS over an Eclipse any time I could possibly do so.

So a breakdown of CE ships is as such:

Void Stalker - great ship, use to fulfil carrier requirements where possible
Eclipse - rubbish ship, avoid where possible
Shadow - rubbish ship, totally superseded by alternatives, don't use
Solaris - rubbish ship, totally superseded by alternatives, don't use
Aurora - reasonable ship, feel free to use
Hellebore - reasonable ship, best used when you have a lot of terrain and ordnance dominance
Aconite - reasonable ship, feel free to use, necessary against any Eldar fleet and Necrons, great against Chaos/Nids too
Hemlock - great ship, one of the staples of the fleet
Nightshade - great ship, one of the staples of the fleet

A note on resilient attack craft. I highly recommend you ignore all the restrictions on resilient attack craft in the 2010 FAQ. Just ignore the entire entry. Simply allow 1 save per marker against another ordnance interaction per turn (so no save vs enemy turrets or direct fire, Nova Cannons, ship explosions, star pulse generators, etc). So if it fails it's removed, if it passes it just counts as a normal fighter/bomber/a-boat or whatever till the end of the turn.

[lastspartacus]

Every time I see a new eldar player thread, I feel the great need to save them and convert them to MMS, yet I know the difficulty of swaying to a fan system, and I feel the importance and consequence of failure like the laughing god trying to save a solitaire from Slaanesh

Naw, go Tau, they are a really rewarding fleet, have two great fleet options you can mix as well as allies, and are much more forgiving of beginners.

[Pierre]

Well I would recommend Tau over Eldar for beginners. I personally do not recommend using official Eldar rules. I would recommend the unofficial MMS (Move Move Shoot) Eldar rules instead. This is for a few reasons. In terms of game balance the official rules are doubly broken. If you have adequate terrain as Eldar you can't lose. If you have no terrain you can't win. All other things being equal, of course. So Eldar are both too powerful and too weak at the same time. Also, the official Eldar rules break the turn based abstraction of the game. That is, they're illogical given the premise.

Ah well we wouldn't want an unbalanced game in either direction because hey that wouldn't be cricket. A lot of my games will be just house games so unofficial fair rules sound good to me. Having moved to a new town for university I will have to check if my local gamers here are alright with that.

Your 1000 pt fleet list is not legal, since you'd need to take a Pirate Prince in games greater than 750 pts.

*bangs head* excuse my idiocy. I did know that just conveniently forgot it to make a bad impression.

However, your only other option for AC, the Void Stalker, gives a great deal more besides. I would take 2 of them in a 2000 pt fleet. I would take a VS over an Eclipse any time I could possibly do so.

Aren't the rules in the 2010FAQ quite explicit on that? In that if the army is not bang on 2000pts, so even 1990pts I am not allowed 2 VS?

And thank you for all the tips/advice about re-rolls/ resilient AC and ship breakdown. Although isnt a Hellebore just a 5 point cheaper Nightshade+Hemlock with one less hit point?

Every time I see a new eldar player thread, I feel the great save them and convert them to MMS, yet I know the difficulty of swaying to a fan system, and I feel the importance and consequence of failure like the laughing god trying to save a solitaire from Slaanesh

I'm open to suggestion! I'm not such a fan of GW that I think they're infallible! And since you both have urged me to try Tau, I will build the CE to 750 or 1000pts as I hate something unfinished and once I'm so frustrated with them, move to Tau

[lastspartacus]

In my opinion, Eldar MMS is the only way to play Eldar.  Good ruleset.

[Sigoroth]

Aren't the rules in the 2010FAQ quite explicit on that? In that if the army is not bang on 2000pts, so even 1990pts I am not allowed 2 VS?

There are 2 ways of looking at this. One is that the above restriction is just idiotic, and so ignore it, and the other is that as you're playing a 2000 pt game then you automatically have a 2000 pt fleet, regardless of the actual amount of points spent on ships, and so, you can just ignore that idiotic rule. Obviously, the best thing to do is to make the matter moot and take a fleet exactly on 2000 pts.

And thank you for all the tips/advice about re-rolls/ resilient AC and ship breakdown. Although isnt a Hellebore just a 5 point cheaper Nightshade+Hemlock with one less hit point?

Indeed, the Hellebore used to be a terrible option. The ability to separate the Hemlock/Nightshade weaponry into different squadrons for tactical purposes as well as doubling the number of hits was well and truly worth the extra 5 pts. Particularly if you favoured one of the destroyers over the other. However, a perusal of the BFG2010 FAQ will show that the Hellebore has been reduced in price to 65 pts, making it a definitely viable option. The same document gives the Aconite a new value of 55 pts, making this vessel also viable.

This change to the Hellebore is actually useful in that it will help to allow you to hit that exact 2000 pt mark for the inclusion of 2 Void Stalkers. For instance, if you find yourself on 1990 pts simply drop 3 destroyers (120 pts) and pick up 2 Hellebores (130 pts). This should make constructing a 2000 pt fleet fairly easy.

I'll give you an example fleet list:

Hero + 3RR - 200 pts
Flame of Asuryan - 320 pts
Void Stalker x 2 - 760 pts
Hellebore x 4 - 260 pts
Aconite x 4 - 220 pts
Nightshade x 6 - 240 pts

Total - 2000 pts

This is a fairly small fleet in terms of number of hits, so can fit into a smaller terrain footprint than a typical destroyer heavy fleet. It will still give you 12 AC with which to protect your frigates from enemy AC and has more firepower than most CE fleets, though with less tactical flexibility. Alternatively you could drop the 8 frigates and pick up 12 more destroyers for that extra survivability, but doing so will leave you a little light on WBs and reduce your overall firepower.

[lastspartacus]

One thing that confused me, now that we are on the topic, was the change of torps to a launch bay on that one escort.  Any insight on that one?  Yes, I'm an eldar newb myself, got a fleet on the way.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Mms hellbore had a fighter launch bay available. Very nice in smaller games where you can't bring a vs and don't want a crap cruiser.

[Sigoroth]

Indeed, it was meant to obviate the need for an Eclipse and make an all escort Eldar pirate fleet possible. It's worth noting that even with the great VS, the FoA and an AC capable escort the Eclipse remains the most efficient AC to cost ratio ship in either the CE or CWE fleets (the DE only match the ratio, exchanging the safety of MSM for extra armour, firepower, normal crits and a-boats).