Armageddon Fleet 3k

[wargame_insomniac]

Hi

I have just found my way over here from Tactical Command Forums. I have played BFG sporadically since the game was was first released. Played primarily IN with a occasional games using Chaos.

I am sorting through my IN/SM ships. I am looking to create a 3,000 points Armageddon fleet (which should give me plenty of options to choose 1,500-2,000 points games).

I have a Apocalypse BB's (unbuilt), 6 part built cruisers/BC's and 9 Falchions.

So far I am thinking of building the following:
1 Apocalypse BB
1 Oberon BB
1 Mars BC
1 Armageddon BC
1 Lunar
1 tyrant
1 Gothic
1 Dictator
9 Falchions

That lot would come to 2,295 points before taking Admirals, re-rolls and ship upgrades.

Ideally i would like to add couple of Endeavours and I have some SM ships to choose from)

I have some questions that I hope you can help me with:

1) Would you agree with my choice of BB's?

2) Can you think of a better mix of 6 cruiser/BC's hulls? I have to include 1 Dictator as that is already buily but the rest I am flexible. I know Armageddon fleet can take 1 BC for every Cruiser. Should i get a 2nd Armageddon BC? I gather these are good in squadron pairs.

3) What is best way to convert Endeavour Light Cruisers? I have some Voss prows. Was thinking whether it would be easy to convert either Dauntless or SM Strike Cruisers.

4) Should i get some more Falchions to have 2 full squadrons of 6?

5) What would be the best Space marine ships to add to the above? I have a good selection of Battlebarges, strikecruisers, Rapid Strike vessels and SM Escorts to choose from? Obviously subject to keeping it to 3,000 points.

If I choose an Adimral with 2 re-rolls, add pair Endeavours, then I am going to have 300 points to spend on SM vessels. So maybe 1 Strike Cruiser and 3 SM Escorts?

That would actually fit with what I had in mind for this Armageddon fleet- my SM Chapter will be Blood Angels (to match my Epic army) and I know they only had 1 Company present for 3rd Armageddon War so would fit if I did nt have any BattleBarges.

What do you think?

Thanks

James

[Sigoroth]

Both the Apocalypse and the Oberon are fluffy choices, but not terribly good. If you're willing to use some house rules then both become reasonable. I would recommend upgrading the Oberon to have 60cm on all its guns for 355 pts and extend the base range of the Apocalypse to 60cm (so you don't need to LO to shoot at long range). I, personally, would also change the consequences for firing at long range too. I would make it that you simply place a BM in base contact with the Apocalypse (directly behind) for firing over 30cm.

As for your cruiser hulls, if you intend to have at least 2 Endeavours and a Dictator then I'd probably add another Dictator and then grab 4 Armageddons. Now that it has come down to 235 pts it is a reasonable choice and it is the namesake of the battlefleet after all. If you want Endeavour CLs I would see if I could 'acquire' some Zeus CLs from Mangozac and use them instead.

As for the Falchions, I'd run them in 3 squadrons of 3. Odd squadron sizes are better than even due to VP and BFI rules and 3 is generally better than 5 since bracing has a less detrimental effect.

If you follow all this advice you'll have 270 pts left over to spend elsewhere (Admiral +1RR). With this you could buy a Strike Cruiser, 3 Hunters and a-boats for the Oberon.

[lastspartacus]

My suggestion to get the lances out to 60 is halve the current shield value of the ship until the next turn.  Shield drain to power the lances.  I'm fond of the blast marker idea, but it can have inverse effects beyond what is intended, and can actually help the apocalypse.

[Sigoroth]

My suggestion to get the lances out to 60 is halve the current shield value of the ship until the next turn.  Shield drain to power the lances.  I'm fond of the blast marker idea, but it can have inverse effects beyond what is intended, and can actually help the apocalypse.

It can't help it. I can't see any unintended consequences either. It suffers a movement, leadership and shield penalty, but nothing more than what it would get for being under direct fire. The BM being behind it will cause very little interference to enemy shooting. Besides, a 2 shield BB is craptastic.

[wargame_insomniac]

Hi guys- thanks for feedback.

Foe battleships, I would prefer to stick to the book stats for the time being. If you are underwhelmed by the Oberon- I might have a look at converting the other Apocalypse hull to an Emperor- all suggestions gratefull received!!

On 6 Voss Cruiser hulls- I think I would find 4 Armageddon BC's and 2 'sDictator a bit boring. I would be happy enough with 2 Armageddon- as you say they are the signature ships of the fleet, and I gather good squadronned as a pair.

No love for Lunar/Tyrant/Gothic? Would a mixed squadron of these work in Battlefleet Armageddon, with my ships above?

Thanks for the comments on the falchions- I like the suggestion of 3 squadrons on 3- saves me having to buy another blister!!

One SM Strike Cruiser and 3 Hunters sounds good.

Thanks

James

[lastspartacus]

Do you use houserules Sig?  BM is considered to surround the ship completely.  Gives it a column shift that could be more beneficial than a shield to high rates of fire from a squadron coming at it.  Also 1/6 chance of blowing attacking ordnance waves.

[Sigoroth]

Do you use houserules Sig?  BM is considered to surround the ship completely.

That's a retarded rule. I tend to avoid the HAs more deranged brain farts. As should everyone.

[lastspartacus]

Was that a purely HA thing?  I thought it was in a GW faq.

[Sigoroth]

Was that a purely HA thing?  I thought it was in a GW faq.

I don't recall which faq it was, but either way, the HA would've been in on it. It's just that back then the HA consisted of 5 people instead of 3.

[horizon]

HA wrote every FAQ. In the past it was Andy, Matt & Gav. At one point it started to merge and then replaced with Bob, Nate & Ray.

I agree with Sigoroth on the blastmarker matter. The surrounding base daftness has been in place from FAQ1.5 and is written in the current rulebook 1.5 iirc.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Magnatize everything. Then if you don't like something change it. I would take the emp over the base oberon, you shouldn't have to mod anything on your current bb hull to make this but once again magnatize! this way you can make both .  Apoc is meh with the base rules, you'll probably only field the emp :/.

Tyrant/ Armageddon combo is powerful midrange for Imps 16fp and 4 lances on a broad side @45 (counting the geddons dorsal) is nice.

If your going to take a mars you almost have to take a dominator (or something with a nova cannon as one nova tends to... blow, pun intended ) I tend to prefer the dictator for smaller games, 750 or less, and the dictator+ emp should be fine for games to about 2k.

Dominator/ gothic or lunar/ lunar is a mainstay but remember single novas are eh. Endevours are ok, if you have torp dauntless available play it as a stand in.

+1 to 3 groups of 3 falchions

So Emp+ ab 370
Geggons (2) 490
Tyrant+45cm 195
Dictator 220
Lunar (2) 360
Endeavour (2) 240
Falchion(3x3) 315

2190

If you take a sa (150) and 3 rr (150) you still have 510 for sm so 3x3 hunters and a strike cruiser.

Blast marker rules are stupid if you are smart enough to maneuver your ships into a position that they will not put bm in each others way you shouldn't be punished for it. That rule cam about from problems with (if the bm is at the rear of the ship does it have -5 cm speed still) or (do bombers attacking a ship with bm in base contact have to roll D6 and be removed on a roll of 6) etc...

[horizon]

Blast marker rules are stupid if you are smart enough to maneuver your ships into a position that they will not put bm in each others way you shouldn't be punished for it. That rule cam about from problems with (if the bm is at the rear of the ship does it have -5 cm speed still) or (do bombers attacking a ship with bm in base contact have to roll D6 and be removed on a roll of 6) etc...

Blue: I always found that a silly reason. In contact is in contact be it front rear up down left right. In contact is -5cm.

Red: Same. If you fly past it nothing happens.

[wargame_insomniac]

Than ks for replies- trying to weigh up the various advice offered. I am happy with Apocalpyse and Emperor and 9 Falchions. Space Marines would be 1 Strike Cruiser and 3 Hunters. Money is tight at the moment so I will have to start the army without CL's. So that means no more than 3 BC's from my 6 Voss cruisers.

So that means 2 Amageddon, 1 Mars, 1 Dictator. So all I have left to decide is the final 2 hulls.

If I went for a Lunar/Gothic, then I think would have to go for a pair.

I have always liked Tyrant with weapon battery upgrade. What about the last one?  Another Tyrant could be interesting. That would give me quite a long ranged fleet compared to most IN fleets. Would help the Armageddon Sector fleet play differently to my standard Gothic sector fleet.

So 2 Amageddon, 1 Mars, 1 Dictator. 2 Tyrant- how does that sound?

Thanks

James

[AndrewChristlieb]

That is a pretty lr fleet your right. It sounds good my only concern is with the single nova but that's really a non issue it should work well for you. The Tyrants backed up with the geddons will put out a boatload of fire plus you have good ac coverage and your bb will complement either with ordnance or lances.

[wargame_insomniac]

Thanks

I did nt want to go overboard on Nova Cannon's, as i did nt want to spam them.

I could upgrade the Tyrant or either of the Armageddon's (as per FAQ2010). But 20 points does sound expensive.

Cheers

James