How to Seperate Shields from Armor?

[lastspartacus]

I have to admit, I'm stumped on this one, barring an overcomplicated method.

I have always found it a bit off that armor effects the outer shielding, but I really can't seem to brainstorm around it.

Any ideas or probable solutions?

[fracas]

To hit vs armor
Then a shield saves

[horizon]

Perhaps just leave it as is.

Or very straightforward.

Shield value (perhaps different per race) is 5+ for Imperial Navy (for example).

So a Lunar prow on is hit by batteries. It has 2 shields (5+) and armoured prow (6+.)

Opponent rolls eight dice: 5,5,6,1,2,4
In old situation vs 6+ hits one shield would be downed. However in the separate shield value it would mean shields down (2 times 5) and one hit to hull (the 6).

So a big negative to the armoured prow of the Imperial Navy, from 1 shield down to 2 shields down and a hit.

If you make shields 6+ the abeam will get really thick.


So you see, keeping as is ain't bad without re-adressing complete balance.


-warning
Not fan of do have this generic. The campaign upgrade exists (as other things have it as well) that a blastmarker is negated on a roll of 6.

[fracas]

Shield saves give the non-active player a chance to roll dice and participates in the defense of his model

I consider this a plus from a player experience - interaction with the game/rules

[horizon]

It could also be a downside -> rolling after rolling in case of brace for impact. Which is a negative.

[lastspartacus]

If the shield functioned as a save, would its usefulness still be determined by the ship's armor?

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

It shouldn't. If a ship had 5+ shield save then 6+ armor wouldn't improve it. Shield saves could work. Instead of a set number of shields, each hit lets the ship save on a 5+. Going on BFI would improve this to 4+. But then again, it would mess up the hitting vs armor. Have to reevaluate further.

[Lex]

Blatantly ignorant, I will toss in my take.....

There is lots of examples in literature and on screen of what "shields" are..... and what they would keep out (or not).
If I read my fluff correctly, the shields on Imp (and other ships) also keep the Warp at bay ?  which would make them more energy shields as anything else.....

Scifictiontional Science would imply that an Energy Shield works best vs material weapons (and VV),  So, IMHI a working shield would influence the to-hit for projectile weapons, as it stops part of the incomming hardware it would lessen the chance of a significant hit.

Energy weapons otoh would easily overload a shield and take it out and score a hit, but it would lessen the impact on the hard target behind the shields. So energy weapons should drop their "potency" when shooting.

[lastspartacus]

So a system where the shields stay active and potentially save all (or none) damage rather than asborbing a set amount of hits before going out?  If I understand it right, armor would still effect the amount rolled, since higher armor would mean less shots needed to be saved.  Hmm.

[lastspartacus]

Yah I thought of that kind of thing, Lex, like allowing different kinds of weapons to offer different effects, but that just got too complicated.  Besides, though there are different 'counts as' shields in the game, the typical void shield functions by warping away the brunt of the force.

The best way would be just have a different 'armor' value for shield, for realism.  Opponent rolls it one at a time until shields go down.
But that would just take too long, I think.  I mean, I really like it, that way you could have different armor for shields and hulls.

[Lex]

So ?  the basic to hit is 4+ ?

Anything shooting material bits (be it broadsides, shuriken, cannonballs and whatever) would go to a ? +1 ? to hit whilst there is still and active shieldstrength. Crits on a ship could bring down SS.

Anything beamy and rayie would drop dice for each active shield, so shooting at a 4SS ship with 5 dice of beamweapons would effectivly be one attack (at basic to hit).

Now it also make sense to use E-type weapons before M-type ones to peel away shields and blastmarkers could still do "their thing".

Just remember that I am more MoW oriented then BFG, but I do some design for a living..... 

[CyberShadow]

The principle of an energy shield is that it converts the energy of an incoming attack into another, less aggresive form, since energy cannot be destroyed or removed, it can only be converted or exchanged. This is why there is often a 'flash' as an impact strikes the shield, which converts the energy of the attack into light.

However, it does depend a lot on how the shields are designed. Possible outcomes could be...
- shields stop low power attacks
- shields have a chance of stopping an attack, no matter what the power level
- shields reducing the incoming attack
- shields work against physical/energy attacks only/differently
- shields work against 'fast' attacks and not 'slow' torpedoes/attack craft
- shields provide an overall cover, or have to be focussed (see Robotech/Macross, for example)
And there are a lot more, and these dont include Eldar shields which are not really shields at all but ECM.

I always assumed that Imperial shields were fairly primitive defences, working against all 'fast' attacks (weapon batteries, lances and other similar attacks), that they were 'all or nothing' - so they didnt reduce the power of an incoming attack, but either blocked it completely or did nothing. I assume that the mechanics of shields were drawn from the Titan shields in Epic.

[fracas]

With shields as saves I would then change bfi to p2s (power to shields) where power is diverted from other systems to bolster the shields. IMO this makes more sense than batten down the hatches of bfi

[lastspartacus]

One thing differences in shields and armor would do is weaken Imperials and need a cost revalue.  But on my personal project im using d12s, so maybe their hull armor could go up to 12 to compensate

[horizon]

Regarding this discussion having ideas is nice but you really need to go all the way and check it all. A small change can cause massive balance friction.

And when you end up changing 50% of all other things as an effect of shield / armour seperation you'll have to ask if it is worth it.

So far I'll stick to rules as is.