What atribute gives the Manta bomber a 4+ save?

[TheMaster42]

Why does the Manta get a 4+ save?

Its model costs over 1500 bucks:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/TAU-MANTA.html

[Zelnik]

Nonsense, it costs about 60 bucks!
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Aeronautica-Imperialis/Aliens_and_Renegades/AERONAUTICA-IMPERIALIS-TAU-MANTA.html

Or you can be really industrious and get 8 of them
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Battlefleet-Gothic/BATTLEFLEET_GOTHIC-TAU-MANTAS.html

So, to summarize:

1. Its really tough. It has great armor (F:13 S:12 R:11 i think).  And it has ten freaking structure points.  In Aeronautica it has 10 hits.

2. It is VERY well defended. It's burst cannons provide complete defense coverage on all facings. (In aeronautica, it can throw more attacks per round then any other ship BY A LONGSHOT)

3. It's main weaponry can stomp titans flat, and can defeat reaver titans with little problem. 

4. The Tau needed an edge somewhere because their ships alone are weaker by comparison.  Resilient bombers bring them well into the competitive zone.  Resilient torpedo bombers are just silly ^_^

[lastspartacus]

Nonsense, it costs about 60 bucks!
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Aeronautica-Imperialis/Aliens_and_Renegades/AERONAUTICA-IMPERIALIS-TAU-MANTA.html

Or you can be really industrious and get 8 of them
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Battlefleet-Gothic/BATTLEFLEET_GOTHIC-TAU-MANTAS.html

So, to summarize:

1. Its really tough. It has great armor (F:13 S:12 R:11 i think).  And it has ten freaking structure points.  In Aeronautica it has 10 hits.

2. It is VERY well defended. It's burst cannons provide complete defense coverage on all facings. (In aeronautica, it can throw more attacks per round then any other ship BY A LONGSHOT)

3. It's main weaponry can stomp titans flat, and can defeat reaver titans with little problem. 

4. The Tau needed an edge somewhere because their ships alone are weaker by comparison.  Resilient bombers bring them well into the competitive zone.  Resilient torpedo bombers are just silly ^_^

Works alright for me, though I still don't know about one Manta being better, not equal to three Starhawks. 

Hell, I'd say 230 points for a ship packing 8 AC is a steal BEFORE the resilient stuff, but thats icing on the cake.

[TheMaster42]

Nonsense, it costs about 60 bucks!
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Aeronautica-Imperialis/Aliens_and_Renegades/AERONAUTICA-IMPERIALIS-TAU-MANTA.html

Clearly doesn't have the 4+ save. 

[Zelnik]

No, it has 10 hits and is almost impossible to kill.

And yes, it is better then three starhawks, since starhawks use single-use bombs, while the manta has a cannon system that can be fired repeatedly.

You will have to deal with the fact that the Tau do make good stuff, some better stuff, some worse stuff, then the Imperium

[lastspartacus]

Not saying they don't but I was under the impression that the Manta assigned for bomber duty used its transport capacity for a payload.

[Kelsik]

Not saying they don't but I was under the impression that the Manta assigned for bomber duty used its transport capacity for a payload.

Iv also read that the  manta  is a missile bomber.  but Ive also read that the manta on anti ship ops will attempt to get in under a starships shields and use its rail guns.  The ammo is a drone controlled cluster munition that is ment to be fired on chinks in a ships armour.  The round is moving at a hyper velocity that depends on its inertial mass and explosives to deliver its kill potential. Both attack methods are well with in the crafts capabilities.

[Zelnik]

Kelsik reminded me that the manta has 14 hits, not 10.. my bad.

I don't own one (yet) but when i do.... BWA HAHAHAHAHHAHA

[Zelnik]

Not saying they don't but I was under the impression that the Manta assigned for bomber duty used its transport capacity for a payload.

Iv also read that the  manta  is a missile bomber.  but Ive also read that the manta on anti ship ops will attempt to get in under a starships shields and use its rail guns.  The ammo is a drone controlled cluster munition that is ment to be fired on chinks in a ships armour.  The round is moving at a hyper velocity that depends on its inertial mass and explosives to deliver its kill potential. Both attack methods are well with in the crafts capabilities.

The normal manta is a multi-purpose warship.  The standard manta (the one that forgeworld sells) is NOT the missile destroyer.  When attacking enemy targets in BFG, like Kelsik said, it uses drone controlled munitions to find weaknesses in armor and exploit them (with devastating effects, remember you don't need to bomb the ship to bits in a vacuum, just blow open a few big holes and the ship will do it all on it's own).

The Manta Missile Destroyer is what happens when the large hold is replaced with an anti-ship missile launcher. When you upgrade Manta's to torpedo bombers, this is what you get.

[lastspartacus]

If you say so, I always assumed it was just loaded with bombs.  Just going on that it takes very specific munitions, rather than missiles and lascannons that fighters are armed with, to do a hit of damage on a typical starship, which is coated in adamantine and a hull point represents a thousand cubic yards of structure.  Bombers load up on extreme stuff like huge melta bombs and such, but if fluff says some missiles do the trick, then I guess thats just semantics.

[Zelnik]

The tau, like eldar, do not believe in indiscriminate destruction. They will always aim for what is most efficient over something that will cause lots of bang and hopefully cause lots of damage if they are lucky.

Think of it like this: If you put a load of powerful (but not hugely powerful) explosives in a weak armor point in the side of the ship, then detonate them, the effect of explosive decompression that the resulting hole will cause will be just as damaging as, say, if you blow a bunch of holes in the toughest part of the armor.  The imperium can waste huge melta warheads en-masse because they have the resources of a gigantic empire to pull upon, where the Tau and Eldar do not.  It's all a matter of resources.

Also, Tau missiles are standardized drone controlled numbers, why make a smaller version when the bigger one is just as effective? by doing so you can launch them at a safe distance and not risking valuable attack craft in a close in assault on an enemy ship.   

[Kelsik]

So,  it looks like you may want to try using persistant mantas as well.  And not just a standard bomber but a persistant and resiliant torpedo bomber with 40cm stand off range.  its a formidable weapons platform, one that requires a opponent to divert resources to deal with or suffer the consequences.   

If a manta is purchased  for use off of a protector with launch bay str 1.   would that protector be able to just launch the manta alone or would it just kick out the manta and support a fighter or tigershark bomber as well?

It gets tricky as you go up in scale,  The hero with bay str 2,  custodian depending on what rules goes from 4,6 or 8.  same with a explorer,  4 or 8 bay srt. 
Take the explorer for further example,   
Pay 230 for the base cost of the ship  ( I think its still 230,  if not Ill edit this later)   then pay 5 pts for 8 mantas  for 40 more points,   ( add 15 more pts per manta to upgrade to torpedo varients?  brining the total costs for the mantas to   5+15=20 per manta x 8 =  160 for the cost of just the mantas,  230+160= 390 for a explorer and payload.  expensive but would it give you  the desirable edge?   
In old rules for purchasing bay str for torpedo bombers it was a all or nothing  purchase.
Has any one concidered a option to allow purchase up to half of the bay str in torpedo bombers?
Same question and probosal for purchasing mantas seperate from the cost of the ship.  All or none or up to half?

And are the mantas seperate or in addition to supported bay srt?  (reiterating but I want this question to be looked at)