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Author Topic: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster  (Read 15840 times)

Offline calmacil

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a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« on: August 26, 2011, 08:33:31 PM »
On my last game we tried these rules out
http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/fanatic/93saofw.pdf

I thought i'd give my opinion on these rules, we think they need tailoring slightly. But overall we liked them  :)



Things i'd keep the same
- The objectives were good, i liked the random total at the end so you couldn't work if you've definately won.

- Strategy dice was a nice touch. Simple idea that worked well. We had a few draws in our rolls so they cancelled each other out. We both liked the Espionage and Terrain advantage idea.


Things i'd change
- We forgot to roll for the length of the game. The rules are roll a d6 at the end of each turn, keep a record of the score. When it reaches 21 it's game over. I can see why they've done that, to stop an unrealistic charge for the objectives on the last turn. But i think too much depends on the luck of the die roll, personally i'd use 1d3 or keep the normal rules.

- The section that made the defender roll for each unit, any 6's means that unit is in reserve. Then at the end of turn 3 roll d6 for reserve units; 5=appears on your table edge, 6=same, but positioned by your opponent. We felt this was too harsh for the defending army, we changed this to turn 2 and on turn 3 you get a +1 bonus, turn 4 +2 etc.


I've written this up because i highly recommend giving them a try.  ;D



PS. In our game i was the attacker (dark elves) and i managed to fortify a woods and give my army army inspired leadership (reroll one blunder). My high elf opponent scouted the battlefield ahead and gained the terrain advantage (he moved 2 hills to his advantage)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 08:42:01 PM by Lex »

Offline Lex

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 08:42:57 PM »
stickied.

To see if we can catch some more stuff, and maybe I will give it an overhaul.

Offline Carrington

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 10:34:19 PM »
Played these about a year ago... Liked them as well.

Offline Avatar of the Eldar

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2011, 06:01:02 PM »
I read through this and I'm of two minds:

The first thought was "Wow, this is great how it provides the nuances of battle besides two side line up and bash it out in the middle."

My second thought was "This is kind of fiddly with all of the "if / then" rules." 

I guess the best test is to try them out.  They seem like they could be used with other systems.  Has anyone tried that?

I'm playing War of the Ring today, I'll see if they work with that system.

Offline Lex

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2011, 06:38:44 PM »
They should work with most game,s they were NOT written with specificly WM in mind, just adapted to it !

Offline calmacil

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2011, 07:21:49 PM »
My second thought was "This is kind of fiddly with all of the "if / then" rules." 

We didn't find the "if/then rules" fiddly.  :) There's going to be alot of the results that you won't read, you only need one from each category.

We just weren't keen on the units in reserve, and the attackers deployment. But that's easily fixed.

Offline Avatar of the Eldar

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 09:15:19 PM »
So Cal,

I re-read these rules and had a few questions if you don't mind...

- Have you used the random point value for objectives?  I like that they are, on average worth more the deeper into the defender's territory.  I assume values are rolled up before the game starts.

- Claiming objectives.  At one point it says that being "adjacent" to an objective "claims" it. And, therefore, if an enemy is also adjacent it's "contested" and awards no VP's.  However it also states that infantry have an advantage in that some objectives (e.g. a village center or woods) cannot be occupied by cavalry.  So, does occupying an "occupiable" objective (defensible terrain) trump being "adjacent".  I think that's how I'd play it.

- Reserves - So, I agree with starting on turn 2 to roll for reserves, with an accumulating +1 modifier in turn 3, +2 in turn 4 etc.  Do you retain the rule about needing a 6 or better to place it your self and a 5 gets placed by your opponent? (I like this when I think of Blucher's Prussians wandering onto the battlefield at Waterloo and both sides not knowing which army was arriving, with Grouchy's wing never showing up.

- Strategy Dice - Procedure (This is where I'm missing something.)

Items 5 and 7 under Procedure reference deciding Attacker and Terrain.  I'm guessing that each player dedicates a certain number of dice from his pool of 10 to decide these outcomes.  Are dice allocated sequentially.  i.e. We're rolling for attacker/defender, I'm HE and you're Chaos.  You already have a racial advantage of +3 (which I assume is  3 extra dice, not +3 to the dice rolls to make 4+) so I've got to pony up at least 3 dice out of my pool to even the odds, but can you then add more? Is it like a bidding war? Or do you each put a number of dice in your hand (secretly) and then reveal them at the same time and roll off?

Okay, depending on that answer, we now move to Terrain.  HE have +1, so I put a certain number towards this dice-off.

But what about the other strategies?  Do you roll for all of them or only those to which pool dice are allocated?

Are Attack and Terrain mandatory and the others optional as long as either play allocates one Pool die towards it?

Or are all Strategies in effect (barring draws in rolling up number of "successes") in every game?

I'm probably over-complicating this.  I can see that some of these strategies would need to be reworked to make them relevant to other game systems like WotR or WFB.  They're clearly aligned to WM or WMA mechanics. 

Offline tweety

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 09:55:28 PM »
for wfb you could try to get hold of the original WD article........

Offline calmacil

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 09:03:15 AM »
So Cal,

I re-read these rules and had a few questions if you don't mind...

I'm no expert, these rules are from the fanatic magazine. But i shall try my best to answer  :)

- Have you used the random point value for objectives?  I like that they are, on average worth more the deeper into the defender's territory.  I assume values are rolled up before the game starts.
We were going to roll these after the game finished. We thought it would stop any unrealistic mad dashes for a few victory points on the last turn. We didn't need to work out victory points in our game because his army withdrew from the field, and i was a long way ahead. (we also needed to pack up quickly)

- Claiming objectives.  At one point it says that being "adjacent" to an objective "claims" it. And, therefore, if an enemy is also adjacent it's "contested" and awards no VP's.  However it also states that infantry have an advantage in that some objectives (e.g. a village center or woods) cannot be occupied by cavalry.  So, does occupying an "occupiable" objective (defensible terrain) trump being "adjacent".  I think that's how I'd play it.
Yeah, i'd agree with that. Maybe have a min. distance from the objective as well if you like.

- Reserves - So, I agree with starting on turn 2 to roll for reserves, with an accumulating +1 modifier in turn 3, +2 in turn 4 etc.  Do you retain the rule about needing a 6 or better to place it your self and a 5 gets placed by your opponent? (I like this when I think of Blucher's Prussians wandering onto the battlefield at Waterloo and both sides not knowing which army was arriving, with Grouchy's wing never showing up.
Yes we were going to use the rule for the attacker placing the defenders units. It never happened in our game. Reading through it again i think it might become annoying for the defending army, because his units will be placed as far away from the action as possible, a long way from any characters.
A possible solution is to have multiple entry points (they could be roads on your table) If a 6 is rolled the attacker decides which entry point.


- Strategy Dice - Procedure (This is where I'm missing something.)
Items 5 and 7 under Procedure reference deciding Attacker and Terrain.  I'm guessing that each player dedicates a certain number of dice from his pool of 10 to decide these outcomes.  Are dice allocated sequentially.  i.e. We're rolling for attacker/defender, I'm HE and you're Chaos.  You already have a racial advantage of +3 (which I assume is  3 extra dice, not +3 to the dice rolls to make 4+) so I've got to pony up at least 3 dice out of my pool to even the odds, but can you then add more? Is it like a bidding war? Or do you each put a number of dice in your hand (secretly) and then reveal them at the same time and roll off?
We both secretly allocated all our 10 dice for every category on the chart (i photocopied the chart for each player) Everyone gets a base of 3 dice for each category.
In your example let's say i was chaos.... i decide to allocate 0 dice to terrain and 2 dice to attack... i would have 3 dice in terrain and 8 dice for attack (3 base, 2 allocated, 3 racial bonus)


Okay, depending on that answer, we now move to Terrain.  HE have +1, so I put a certain number towards this dice-off.
But what about the other strategies?  Do you roll for all of them or only those to which pool dice are allocated?
Yes you roll for all of them.

Are Attack and Terrain mandatory and the others optional as long as either play allocates one Pool die towards it?
I think that's answered above. Even with 0 dice allocated you'll have a base of 3 dice


I'm probably over-complicating this.  I can see that some of these strategies would need to be reworked to make them relevant to other game systems like WotR or WFB.  They're clearly aligned to WM or WMA mechanics.
Yes you'd probably need to change a few of the results for WotR.

Hope that's helped  :)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 10:11:19 AM by calmacil »

Offline Avatar of the Eldar

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 05:38:41 PM »
for wfb you could try to get hold of the original WD article........

So there was a version of this for WFB in a White Dwarf?  That sounds vaguely familiar. In the dim mists of history, when WD wasn't just an overpriced advert and model porn.

Anyone have any idea what number or how long ago?  Must consult the oracle of Google.

Thanks!

Offline Avatar of the Eldar

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 05:40:19 PM »
I'm no expert, these rules are from the fanatic magazine. But i shall try my best to answer  :)

In the room full of blind men, the one-eyed man is king.   ;)

It was helpful, thank you!

Offline calmacil

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2011, 10:19:53 PM »
We've had another game using this system and here's the rules we'd change


Terrain, Fortify and Leadership remain the same


The Scouting outcome for defenders changes. Instead of putting the attackers unit in reserve, the defenders results mirror the attackers result (moving units closer)


Espionage remains the same, but the magic item removed is a max of 20 points. Our reason for this is it's rare for a player to take 50 point banners or 100 point crowns, this discourages the player from taking them.


Supplies and Communication We changed all this, none of us like the rules for reserves. Our version is;
Win by 1-2 = the loser chooses 2 of his units that can't move in the first turn.
Win by 3-4 = the winner chooses 2 of his opponents units that can't move in the first turn.
Win by 5+ = as 3-4 result, plus choose one unit that is destroyed


Attack has changed as well. Again we don't like the reserve idea. Our version is;
Win by 1-2 = choose 2 of your units, they can flank. Secretly write down left or right. At start of turn 2 units appear anywhere along the side you nominated. Can move as normal
Win by 3-4 = as above, but 3 units
Win by 5+ = as above, but 4 units


Offline Lex

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2011, 10:08:03 PM »
Good suggestions ......

Keep stuff comming and I will do a rewrite and put it up on Warmuster.......

Offline Tzigane

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 09:53:38 PM »
Is this still up somewhere?
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Offline Lex

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Re: a review of "Strategy and Objectives" for Warmaster
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 10:36:55 PM »
Is this still up somewhere?

It should be   8)