Fleet for tournament

[Ghuda]

In my group we decided to organize our own little tournament with the following rules:
- fleets are limited to 1500 points
- table size 120cm x 120cm
- there is a pool for celestial phenomena consisting 1 small planet, 1 small astroid field (5 x 10), 1 large astroid field (10 x15) & 2 dust clouds. Each player may choose one of these phenomena and place it on the battlefield.

I play Eldar MMS or Chaos (I can't choose) and will play vs IN, Chaos, Necron, FW tau & Tyranids. 

Eldar MMS List:
Void stalker + assault boats + Shadow prince 530
Aurora + Gryphon knights 165
Aurora + Gryphon knights 165
3x Nightshades 150
3x Nightshades 150
3x Hemlocks 150
3x Hemlocks 150
Extra reroll 25
Total= 1485

Chaos list:
Styx  + Warmaster Ld +2 360
Devestation  + Chaos Space marines 225
Murder 170
Murder 170
Hades 200
Slaughter + Chaos Lord + Mark of Slaanesh 215
3x Idolator 135
Extra reroll 25
Total = 1500

Please help me to make a choice between these lists and advice me on how to improve these lists with my recources.

For Eldar I've got an eclipse, a shadow, 3 aconites and 3 hemlocks and for Chaos I've got 4 cruisers (unassembled), desolator (unassembled), 3 idolators & 3 iconoclasts which I can use to improve my lists.

Thnx!
Ghuda

[horizon]

Hi,
good group and you know why.

Chaos
With what you have I would keep the list if you are in an ordnance heavy enviroment. Otherwise try to fit in the Desolator.

This my list, not tournament minded but what I tend to field:

Desolator
Styx
2x Carnages
Slaughter
6x Infidel
3x Iconoclast

But with all unassembled stuff... your options are endless.

Eldar
You need more escorts.
Drop an Aurora. Or drop the Void Stalker to an Eclipse.
(so 1 VS + 1 aurora or 1 Eclipse + 2 Aurora).

With those points freed add 3 Aconites.

[afterimagedan]

Bah, whatever. I think your Eldar fleet is fine. I would keep the Void Stalker; the option of dropping an Aurora and the Griffon Knights on the other Aurora for some more escortage is something to think about. I personally like having 2 Auroras but I will field a Void Stalker as often as I can. I do think that Aconites would be a good addition knowing how many pulsars you have.

[fracas]

Chaos
Less escorts to get a second slaughter

[horizon]

Bah, whatever. ?

[Sigoroth]

If you were going to go Chaos I think the following would be a fairly strong list:

WM + MoT- 80 pts
Desolator - 300 pts
Styx - 260 pts
Devastation x 2 - 380 pts
Carnage x 2 - 360 pts
Infidel x 3 OR Cobra x 4 - 120 pts

Total - 1500 pts

You do not have either Infidels or Cobras, but could either borrow some Cobras from your IN friend or Infidels from your Chaos friend or buy some or use your Idolators to count as Infidels or your Iconoclasts to count as Cobras. Alternatively you could swap out the escorts and Styx for a couple more cruisers, any mix of Carnages and Devs would do.

I would however use the MMS Eldar list, if only to provide as much racial diversity as possible for the tournament. For Eldar I would swap out an Aurora and grab the Aconites to boost your battery power, which will be quite useful against Chaos and Tyranids, and is essential to be able to get any damage on a braced Necron vessel (also not too shabby against IN/Tau). You might find yourself out matched in ordnance, particularly from the Tau, Nids and possibly Chaos too. In this case you can swap out the Auroras and pick up the Eclipse (+GK) and an Aconite.

[afterimagedan]

I was just whatevering the notion to drop cruisers. Its all in fun! 

What about fitting in the Void Stalker and the eclipse together? One could be on fighter duty, the other could bomber synergy with Nightshades.

[horizon]

fun fun fun, that's why I said more escorts cause that is fluffy.

Your idea (eclipse/vs) is what Sigoroth also mentions if the enviroment will be really ordnance heavy. Though Eldar can get aay with less carriers then other races. The setting is pretty cool btw with the opponents he will have.

[Ghuda]

Thnx guys for all your advice!

I've decided to play with Eldar. I'm still not sure whether to take the eclipse and a single aconite or one aurora and three aconites.

I prefer the aurora and aconites because it gives me more firepower. But I'm afraid I will be overrun by  ordnance of some opponents. Three of them will probably play ordnance heavy fleets (as Sigoroth mentioned). The tyranid player will probably have one or two hive ships with launch bays, the  chaos player will have at least ten launch bays (he always plays with a devastation and a styx), and the tau will have lots and lots of torpedoes and six or so launch bays. 

Is this environment ordnance heavy enough to take the eclipse or is it save to go for the aurora and the aconites?

Btw we changed a rule. We won't play with a celestial phenomena pool anymore, because everyone would choose the best phenomenon for his army. Therefore, we have decided to determine the terrain by using the tables in the rule book.

I'll keep you all up to date about my games as soon as I start playing and probably I'll come back to you for some tactical advice (I have not played many games yet with the MMS rules).

[Sigoroth]

I would go the Eclipse. You do lose a lot of firepower and the extra hits and shields of the 2 Aconites, but the Eclipse is considerably tougher than the Aurora and MMS Eldar are fairly susceptible to ordnance attacks, particularly Hemlocks and Nightshades. Since they're the main offensive element of your force I think protecting them is key. Also, Eldar bombers are quite potent, even in low numbers, so if you end up with AC surplus to requirements you still have the flexibility of using them offensively, mitigating the lost firepower.

You'll notice the loss of those WBs most against Necrons, but there's little to be done about that. If you had some Hellebores you could take a couple of them and therefore forego taking an Eclipse, allowing the Aconites to be included.

[horizon]

Like Sig says, the Hellebore fighter bay would be an ideal protection in this case.


Celestial Phenomena pool? I would indeed just go with the rulebook rule = roll d6 per quadront (60x60)cm box. Following the guide per zone as the book says.

[afterimagedan]

Ok so, Horizon/Sigoroth, what point level would you try for VS + eclipse? Just curious, when is the lowest point level you would take a VS?

[AndrewChristlieb]

I gotta agree on the "pool" by allowing people to place a predetermined piece of terrain your inviting people to get upset. Unfortunately too many people are bad sports and I can just see "man bob got to place the planet near his side so that's why he won". If you want each player to place something in their area I would roll for it randomly, then there's no reason for people to get upset.

[horizon]

For me:
Void Stalker = 1500pts.
Void Stalker + Eclipse 2000pts

[Ghuda]

I never gave the hellebores much thought, because with they are very expensive and not great in the original rules. But the launch bay makes them useful in ordnance heavy environments. I'll won't use them in this tournament but will definitely buy some for future games.

What is the point cost of them? because there are two point references 75 and 80 points.