September 13, 2024, 04:10:17 PM

Author Topic: BFG:R Nova Cannon  (Read 19242 times)

Offline Phthisis

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2011, 05:15:09 AM »
Okay.  I like that.

Regarding the comparisons of the damage output for LO NCs in the old system vs the new system, it sounds to me like you're getting exactly what is needed.  NCs at long range were never the problem.  It was up close where they got a massive boost in power.  Then when you added LO to the mix they got even stronger.  It was the short range band where they were by far the worst.

These new rules increase their threat at long range while putting a big damper on their damage output at short range.  And it gives players a reason to LO when using the NC. 

Also, it just feels right.  LO should help more for long range shots than short range ones.  Nova Cannon blasts should have an intermediate damage range.  Sigoroth's new range bands feel much better as well.

Offline Taggerung

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2011, 11:54:04 PM »
1 NC per 500 seems to be the only real balancing that needs to be done, or you make it so for every NC you have, you must have 1 cruiser (Or higher vessel) without one.

The statement below makes sense from both a game point of view and a fluff point of view.

"-Fluff dictates that to fire an NC ships have to pay particular attention to targeting, and they don't turn/perform any manouvres while firing. LO prevents turning."

Another option would be not allow it to be fired after it goes on LO. This could be used to represent the cannon being reloaded (Yes in fluff they fire giant shells, which take 40+ minutes to reload), but being fired accurately causes them to reset some controls/systems (Kind of like a rush to get the next shell out, which when firing real weapons, you can fire a rifle rapidly, or fire accurately, but never both)

Or just don't let them go on LO 2 turns in a row.

Nerfing the damage output makes zero sense fluff wise or game wise.

Besides they are really only scare to 1 or 2 other fleets, and that's chaos who loves to sit back and fire away and Necrons since they don't seem to be an in your face fleet. When you look at the other fleets, Orks, Nids, Marines, Other IN, Eldar, DE (Tau I am very unfamiliar with, so not sure where they sit), the NC is not much of an issue since you are generally within it's minimum range after 1 or 2 rounds of shooting, or they just get a save against it....unless you the fleets mentioned.

I generally only run with 2 in my fleets, and only because Dominators are a great all comers ship (I take them in every fleet I write, no matter if it's Eldar or whatever, because when he does fail his save...oh man, destroying an eldar bb with one shot is just awesome)

« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 12:02:43 AM by Taggerung »

Offline Plaxor

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2011, 05:53:06 PM »
Agreed Tag. 1/500 is what I'm writing, only being able to get 2 in 1500 points seems weird, and at 3 I don't think they would be much of a problem.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2011, 07:08:22 PM »
1/500 is fine. 3 in a 1500 can be a pain, if played right they can shut down carriers pretty easily. If you don't brace you run the risk of taking massive damage. If you do brace your not reloading and still might take damage. If you don't brace I will probably send my next shot to that ship too :P.
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Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2011, 04:15:32 AM »
What about AdMech then? They should have more in a fleet if they wanted too.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2011, 12:58:57 PM »
Ya there is no good argument for admech no to have as many as they want.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Phthisis

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2011, 05:42:49 PM »
Sure there is.  If more than 1 per 500pts is abusive in the IN list, why isn't it abusive in the Ad Mech fleet.  4 NCs on the board at 1500pts is still 4 NCs whether its the IN, Ad Mech or whatever you decide to call it.   Perhaps NCs have very rare and expensive ammunition or are difficult to maintain, even for the Ad Mech?  Either way, there's no point in breaking the game in the name of fluff.  Besides, Ad Mech is already pretty badass.

Offline Taggerung

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2011, 08:22:19 PM »
Why did you nerf the damage Plaxor? What we decided for Phthisis rule set was to force NC's to be fired before all other weapons. Kept the damage and re-rolls for LO the same. That removes his complaint about them being over powered.

Offline Plaxor

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2011, 02:18:10 AM »
The damage statistically on NCs is actually about the same. Since the ranges changed it makes near misses more likely, and damage is only reduced for those near misses (to not make it absurd). Direct hits remain nearly the same as the previous incarnation, bands are widened, which stabilizes the damage and randomness of the NC somewhat.

Admech could get 6 NCs at 1500, the fleet would be badass, but still suffer their inherent weaknesses. Primarily in that it would be more expensive, and either not have ordnance, or have very little. Besides I do not think that that fleet would necessarily be top-tier competitive, but it would certainly work better than a 6NC IN fleet (long range cruiser lances, and a slightly better LD table, also small ability to metagame by modifying ships depending on opponent's strategy)

The Admech are equivalent to what I wrote for the Daemonfleet. Both have the most potential to be broken in BFG:R, but we'll have to see (although daemons have a higher likelihood). Both 'fleets' were severely unpowered in their official incarnation, Admech particularly because it couldn't choose which upgrade it received (and some weren't anywhere near worth the points premium) and daemons due to their unreliability and massive negatives.

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2011, 04:02:21 AM »
Sure there is.  If more than 1 per 500pts is abusive in the IN list, why isn't it abusive in the Ad Mech fleet.  4 NCs on the board at 1500pts is still 4 NCs whether its the IN, Ad Mech or whatever you decide to call it.   Perhaps NCs have very rare and expensive ammunition or are difficult to maintain, even for the Ad Mech?  Either way, there's no point in breaking the game in the name of fluff.  Besides, Ad Mech is already pretty badass.
In this case I think fluff should be followed and the AdMech should have more resources/options to field NC's in their fleet.If it is +1 to the Imperial rule in the whole game (eg in a 500pts match it is 1+1 for AdMech, in 1000 2+1 and in 1500 3+1 etc.
(Quick thinking there.

And I am not read into AdMech:Revised but when it comes to the Ships of Mars official fleet list they are not so bad ass at all. Expensive ships, in 9 of the 10 matches (or more) outnumbered) plus random upgrades which may not be so benefacial as you wanted them to be.

Offline Phthisis

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2011, 09:13:41 PM »
Its your party.  We are handling it in a different way.

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2011, 09:25:17 PM »
Handle what? AdMech? Or the NC distribution?

Offline Phthisis

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2011, 09:28:02 PM »
The AdMech fleet.  1 per 500 for NCs is going to apply to both AdMech and IN lists.

Offline Taggerung

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2011, 10:26:04 PM »
I guess I just don't see why AdMech needs to have more NC's than IN, or where it even states that in the fluff?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Nova Cannon
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2011, 01:03:08 AM »
Its implied that the nova is rare in the IN, but Admech have no shortage of anything... because they build whatever they want. However I have no problem playing against someone that has a fleet thats nova heavy. I also like to play with random terrain and know where the aaf button is  ::)
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.