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Author Topic: Torpedo and AC markers redux....  (Read 14262 times)

Offline Vaaish

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Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« on: August 11, 2011, 09:15:17 PM »
So after dropping this for quite some time, Zac and started discussing the possibilities again. I had a bit of time today so I whipped up these to get some feedback. There have been a few changes, but the overall effect is that they can be stacked flat with the raised parts fitting into the underside of the marker above. They all fit 2x 10mm dice to mark the strength of the salvo. I've only optimized the lower right options so far, but at least using the white strong and flexible it should be something like $25USD for 15-20 markers including shipping using the white strong and flexible. I'll still need to see how well they print though.

The one in the upper left isn't really an option as the torpedo is too small.



better shot of the "cheap" marker.
-Vaaish

Offline fracas

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 11:04:28 PM »
I like them. Will the torpedoes vary with ability? Eldar, tau, boarding etc?

Offline mangozac

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 11:52:29 PM »
Quote from: Vaaish
should be something like $25USD for 15-20 markers including shipping using the white strong and flexible.
Wow at that price if the quality is acceptable there's not much point casting in resin!

The cutout in the bottom for stacking is a good idea too.

So to have them bought via Shapeways or resin cast?Sounds like some pencil sharpening is in order... ;)

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 12:31:55 AM »
Fracas: theoretically they could. Once the layout is fixed it's just a matter of swapping out the relief for various other objects. I probably wouldn't do anything that's close to the GW look for Tau and Eldar so as not to run afoul of their IP rules but torpedoes are pretty fair game.

Zac: yeah, that's what I'm hoping. If we bumped up to the next best material, the black detail, the price would probably end up at $30 for the same number. I think it'll be fine though with the cheaper since there isn't a whole lot of tiny details and it's mostly flat planes. I'll be tweaking both the flat relief and more object type relief tomorrow to make it a bit easier to work with and fix some lingering issues.
-Vaaish

Offline russ_c

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 05:34:05 AM »
I guess these are the types of threads that get me to come back...

I like the above designs simplicity and I think it's cool that they can stack, although I'm not sure of the purpose of stacking.

What I don't care about the 2D6 setup is that it requires...well, 2D6.  I feel that a tray that has two dice is cumbersome and crowded.  Imagine grabbing one die to flip without bumping another that is really close.  To get around this I prefer using 2 different colored dice.  For example, when a white die is in the tray then that means there are a number of torpedoes equal to 6 + the number on the white die.  Once the torpedo count goes below 7 (i.e. less then 1 on a white die) then I swap out the white die for a black die to count the final 6.  Thus 12-7 is represented by a white die an 6-1 by a black, or whatever pairing of colored dice you desire to use.

Also, I've found that you want the tray to be relatively deep, about a quarter of the dies height. This makes it hard to bump the die lose, but easy to remove if grasped.  Lastly, to keep the base spacious I prefer using a single 8mm die because it's just big enough for adult hands, easier to obtain cheaply then 10mm dice, and it's unobtrusive, meaning it won't stick out to much if you choose to actually model the torpedoes.

I have ordnance markers for Full Thrust fighters that I made that follow the above principles and use an 8mm black die.  The die is the perfect size in my opinion, as it doesn't get in the way of the fighter stands, but it's easy to grab and flip:




And I made a 1cm square one for BFG that I have not cast duplicate of yet.  It uses the 8mm tray as well.  Just imagine this base finished with 3 little torpedoes on it like the above FT fighter base:





Offline horizon

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 06:27:52 AM »
2 dice on the torp marker is the way the faq handles torpedoes.

Despite all the whining from us a torp marker should be max 1 d6. But Nate did not listen.

Offline russ_c

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 07:05:37 AM »
2 dice on the torp marker is the way the faq handles torpedoes.

Despite all the whining from us a torp marker should be max 1 d6. But Nate did not listen.

I guess I don't see the difference between using 2D6 of different colors, with one out at a time, and using 2D6 always out on the marker (as stated in the FAQ).  You're still getting 1-12 in strength designation, but saving the space and fiddly-ness.

Russ

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 04:51:37 PM »
Russ: I see your point in using the one tray and swapping it out, but with how the FAQ handles things most people will be using two dice to represent the value. It would have been a far more elegant solution all around if it had been 1d6 per marker, but alas it is not to be. Because of that, the tray has to seat two dice which should cover the majority of situations (it won't work if three dauntless fire a salvo though). I picked 10mm because it's still fairly large to aid picking up the dice but small enough that two fit nicely on the base and because it hollows out more space which keeps the cost of the bases down. It should still work alright with 8mm dice.

Since the details on the bases are raised, I wanted them to be able to stack so that the raised bits wouldn't make them take up extra space. That way you can more easily store them.

Right now the thickness of the base is 2mm and the tray for the dice is inset about 1.8mm.

Anyway, after further refinement, here's where I'm at:
Type 1 and 2 are all ready to go. I just need to do a test run to make sure they all print as expected in the various materials. Right now I'm leaning toward type 1 as being the final because it has the most utility in the long run to create flat outlines of other types of AC.

-Vaaish

Offline fracas

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 07:37:51 PM »

Offline russ_c

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 07:59:05 PM »
Do you know about this?
http://www.litko.net/products/Gothic-Space-Missiles.html

Both of the bases in my above pictures started with acrylic cut by LitkoAreo through custom requests.  Jim rocks and will do just about anything at incredible prices.  The problem is that his laser cutter will cut all the way through the acrylic so you can't have him cut a "divot" out for a tray.  You'd have to cap the bottom afterwards.

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2011, 08:19:40 PM »
yeah, I've used Liko a few times and I've been happy with the results, but what I'm aiming for is something that can be painted and has some detail or modeling on it. Litko is a completely different style of marker.
-Vaaish

Offline mangozac

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2011, 12:22:53 AM »
It's coming along very nicely. I agree that type 1 will be best in order to have the space available for other types of AC.

I'm not a fan of the Litko stuff either. "Tokens" make things to much like a board game for my taste...

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2011, 01:26:25 AM »
I've gone ahead and ordered protoypes for the markers in the cheap white strong and flexible material, the white/black detail, and frosted ultra detail. If they all print and print acceptably I'll be making the mares available on the store. I can offer singles through shapeways, but there is one rather annoying problem. Even if you order 8 markers in the same type material, they charge you the setup fee for each marker which basically kills any economy you get from printing them. $3.50 is a bit much.
-Vaaish

Offline mangozac

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2011, 09:22:29 AM »
Will be keen to see the result!

Offline Vaaish

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Re: Torpedo and AC markers redux....
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 04:47:24 PM »
These have turned somewhat more complicated due to some of the constraints imposed by shapeway for the different material types. So far I've had to do two revisions tweaking the wall thickness. As it stands now, the modeled missile versions will only be available in the frosted ultra detail and the white strong and flexible pending the latest version actually making it to print.

The flat marker should still be available in the various materials. I am somewhat annoyed by this since part of the issue is the thickness of the material that forms the solid base. It's an area that should have zero difficulty printing as it covers a solid area and isn't part of the walls so it doesn't have to support the weight underneath. Hopefully this round will go through and I'll be able to post images next week.
-Vaaish