New Tau List experiences

[Caine-HoA]

Hi all,

i wanted to know about your experiences with the new Tau list. Who already played them? What ships did you use in those games? Do you think the new made ships are balanced or ares till faulty.


My only game so far was with a mixed list 1500p

2 Explorers (one with Torpedo Setup, squadron)
1 Custodian (Cmd + RRs)
1 Hero + 1 Protector (squadron)
6 Orcas
3 Wardens

VS

1 new venerable Battlebarge (cmd)
3 SC Bombard 2nd Shield (squadron)
3 SC Normal 2nd Shield (squadron)

Quick match description:
We made a simple fight with setups in diagonal corners. The SM aimed to go all ahead to come close quickly. I setup all ships to directly oppose him expect the two Explorer who were a litte further aside of the main fleet.

My advantage was that i got the first shooting phase with all Capital ships locked on. All Escorts were out of range at that point (i kept them behind the capital ships at setup).
I did quite some dmg on the BB (it braced) got away almost all of his orndance and was able to criple one of the SCs.

The response was a lock on from all SCs and a normal approach from the BB. He focussed almost all fire on my Custodian and got it down to 2HP even though it was braced. The 11 hits from 3 Bombardment SCs were pretty impressive but i saved 5 hits through bracing.

His Problem was now that after focussing my Custodian I could lock on an additional time with all Escorts and  reload my cruisers and my Explorers, as nothing had to brace.
He just couldnt defend against this massive attack. The BB was crippled with low HP one and about 3 cruisers were damaged or crippled most of his fleet on brace.
My torpedos got some hits while my Bombers did almost nothing (even a full 8 Manta wave on a SC did NO dmg at all).

After that turn he tried some boarding just for the fun but didnt achieve anything. After that we stopped the game as it was pretty late and he wouldnt have had any chance (i didnt play for a while so we needed quite some time for the few turns).

General conclusion:
I can say that BFG is still a game of the first initiative. Who can make the first massive attack has by far the better chances to win (if the enemy doesnt brace he is crippled if he braces he cant fire back with the same power).

Thoughts about SM:
The 5 Bombard upgrade can be quite powerfull, especially vs fleets that count on front armor (Imp, Tau, Orcs). The 2nd shield for SCs is necessary vs any fleet that uses lances and makes the SCs not really cheap for their firepower (and 6HP on all front vessels is pretty low). The venerable Battlebarge firepower is impressive, but if you focus your SCs and BB on Bombardments you lack ordnance defense (especially vs ordnance heavy fleets like tau).

Thoughts about Tau:
The list was a pretty strong allround fleet. Orcas and Wardens can do a lot of dmg for their price if you can protect them. The 3rd shield on the Custodian was a necessary improvement. The new Protector seemed to be "ok" (the problem is that 1 bomber does nothing and the 5 torpedoes are nice but you always have to think about wether you reload for 5 torps or go lock on instead; 90° is nice to play though; still the hero has more firepower and defense).

Non used ships:
Castellans/Defenders: Dont seem worthy the high asking price of 50 points... just compare the firepower: if you want eskorts get orcas and wardens, if you want torpedoes/45cm batteries get cruisers
Emissary: I would give them a chance (had only one model though that was not prepared). Still they have a really big problem with only 4HP if you cant protect them.
Merchant: Still completely useless...
Messenger: Maybe interesting in a bulk of Castellans and Emissaries

[Zelnik]

The tau fleet is very much a phalanx, designed to hold a shield wall and stab at the enemy with medium range fire and long range torpedo's.  It's not really surprising that you got in the first punch.  If i were the space marine player, i would not have done what he did

The strike cruiser variants are -indeed- powerful.  I use them extensively in my grey knights fleet. I once had a single strike cruiser board it's way through two full health chaos cruisers one game, and a tombship the next.

Here is my overview of the tau options.

Explorer: still a viable choice, mostly because it's cheap. 230 points for 8 manta's is awesome, if you spend the extra points for torpedo bombers, it gets crazy.

hero: I still can't get my brain wrapped around this ship.  It must be the look, which i just can't come to terms with.. I like the protector so much more.  Still, four ion cannons and 8 hits is just hot.

Merchant: this can be a mean little gunship, but mostly it's for taking grav-hooks on the cheap.

All old tau escorts but the Nicassar dhow are outdated, and simply should not be used.


Custodian: A proper carrier battleship, and with the special commander, it turns this thing into a nightmare for enemy ships.  great firepower, great ordnance, great rules.

Protector: I have mixed feelings about what they did to this ship.  I liked my more "ordnance" focus for the ship, the loss of the bomber and torpedo is really felt, since the fleet is based off of ordnance combat.  You need to learn how to use it differently, those 90 degree turns effectively guarantee the enemy is always shooting against 6+ armor.

Emissary: this thing wins over the merchant in every way. it can take the grav prow, and has three effective versions for you to toy with.  I take them frequently because for a 4 hit cruiser, they are armed to the goddamn teeth, and frequently are ignored.  also.. they are cheap.

Warden: Better then the orca by far. faster and better weapon arcs.

Castellan: I can't agree with your assessment. For 150 points, you get more torpedo's then a Protector and the same as a hero. the 45 range guns are incredible if you keep them around a messenger or Custodian to benefit from the tracking systems. I don't take a fleet without six of these bad boys, and they always do the most damage.

Citidel: I don't know why they added this, aside from giving a Demiurge fleet a cheaper cruiser choice. I would take the bastion over this any day.

Dhow Rig and Convoy: finally, a cheap way to bring dhows to combat!! I love Dhows, and so should you.

Dhows: these are the most powerful escorts the tau have, and one of the best in the game.  3 batteries port AND starboard, 2 shields, and a 180 degree turn.  sure they are slow for an escort, but they are a pain to kill, and can really dish out the pain to an enemy.

Kroot Warsphere.
Land one on a planet... watch the planet get eaten for the greater good. 

Yes, look at it.. it's the fabrige' egg of doom and it can LAND.  Omonomnomnomnom

[horizon]

Zelnik, Outdated? The Orka still is only 25pts, added to the cheap grand Explorer a perfect little ship imo.


Nice game test (I read one at warseer where Tau lost vs Space Marines (both 2010).

I love the new Protector (quite understandable), I Love the focus on gunnery instead of ordnance (leave that to the armada fleet).

[Zelnik]

The warden is better, spend the 5 points and get a better vessel

[Sigoroth]

Thoughts about SM:
The 5 Bombard upgrade can be quite powerfull, especially vs fleets that count on front armor (Imp, Tau, Orcs). The 2nd shield for SCs is necessary vs any fleet that uses lances and makes the SCs not really cheap for their firepower (and 6HP on all front vessels is pretty low). The venerable Battlebarge firepower is impressive, but if you focus your SCs and BB on Bombardments you lack ordnance defense (especially vs ordnance heavy fleets like tau).

Agreed. The 2nd shield does seem to be an essential upgrade and getting an extra 5 BC for the THs is very powerful (a little silly as far as I'm concerned) and yes, at 160 pts the SC is costly.

Thoughts about Tau:
The list was a pretty strong allround fleet. Orcas and Wardens can do a lot of dmg for their price if you can protect them. The 3rd shield on the Custodian was a necessary improvement. The new Protector seemed to be "ok" (the problem is that 1 bomber does nothing and the 5 torpedoes are nice but you always have to think about wether you reload for 5 torps or go lock on instead; 90° is nice to play though; still the hero has more firepower and defense).

The Orca is a gem, no doubt, but in comparison to it the Warden is overpriced poo. In my games, using the CPF models only, I've found the lack of another Orca's firepower and hits to be felt far more than the naff 5cm speed increase and the swapped fire arcs (let's face it, you're going to try to be prow on anyway). The Custodian I find to be just on the right side of the line as far as survivability goes, but it manoeuvres like a cow for what it brings. I really did have trouble moving it.

Alas and alack, the Protector lets down the fleet. It has some nice punch, but at only 6 hits it really is quite fragile. I had hoped that its good protection to AC and 6+ prow alongside its high firepower and manoeuvrability might make up for it, but the fleet ended up getting pounded by an Eldar player (me) who was playing to the Tau strengths (ie, sitting in his sights rather than flying past and reforming). The lack of survivability there when I myself was only using 6 hit main ships and also its lack of survivability when I played them against Chaos really told. From play it seemed that the Custodians were the true warships holding the line while the Protectors were more like a Dauntless.

I could not suggest a change for the Protector to make up the lack, other than possibly lightening the restrictions on the Custodian slightly to fit more of those in. Maybe drop the requirement of Tau ships, and make it 750 pts of any ships. Or instead make it part thereof rather than full 750 pts.

Non used ships:
Castellans/Defenders: Dont seem worthy the high asking price of 50 points... just compare the firepower: if you want eskorts get orcas and wardens, if you want torpedoes/45cm batteries get cruisers
Emissary: I would give them a chance (had only one model though that was not prepared). Still they have a really big problem with only 4HP if you cant protect them.
Merchant: Still completely useless...
Messenger: Maybe interesting in a bulk of Castellans and Emissaries

You are spot on with the Castellans and Defenders. More so the Castellans, even though I think the Defender is way overpriced. Due to limited model selection the Castellan figured prominently in each CPF list we played and never did they return their points and typically they were simply a massive target, giving up truly horrendous amounts of VPs for little effort. I can only recommend that you never bother taking them.

The Emissary didn't play out too badly, but as soon as someone even glanced in their direction they tended to fall apart. Really they tended to be protected more due to the fact that there were higher threats that were easier to destroy than anything else. Castellans still alive meant more effort to reap those VPs. Protectors nearby meant focus on them since it doesn't take much more fire to bring them down and they're more threatening. Protector not nearby, or able to be ignored because it's in a bad position, or some offside firepower going the Emissary's way however meant instantly crippled Emissary.

The Messenger is a nice idea that is simply impractical. The ship itself is quite impotent and its own firepower isn't even affected by its TS. It is very expensive and has a very limited range (seriously, 10cm may seem a lot but when you take model size into account you really start to get crowded rather quickly). Also, using it to boost Castellans and Emissarys seems like good points thrown after bad. And finally, the 20cm range TS of the Custodian is typically good enough. Even with 2 Custodians you won't cover your entire fleet all the time, but you'll do well enough to not even want to think about throwing 50 pts after one of these.

The Merchant is quite usable. If you'll notice the 2010 FAQ its base price has come down to only 95 pts, meaning it can get 6 hits at only 110 pts. With the lance variant this is a fair amount of punch for its cost. Sure, it doesn't have the speed or manoeuvrability of a Dauntless, but it does allow another Protector for cheap, and it's not way overpriced. Note: while there are a number of aspects of the 2010 FAQ that I specifically disagree with, and I would recommend your group being selective in its application, this is to me a welcome change.

As for the rest, don't use Dhows or Warspheres (both way too expensive). The Citadel is possibly usable, but I myself would convert or scratchbuild one. The Bastion model is large enough to be a full 8 hit cruiser and should not be used as a Citadel in my opinion.

Lastly, I would not use the torpedo Explorer ever. Firstly I have an issue with sacrificing broadside firepower to get prow weaponry. That doesn't make any sense to me. Secondly, while the torps are good and all, I would not ever point an Explorer at the enemy. Combination of poor speed/manoeuvrability, soft nose, vulnerable aft, low shields, no off-side firepower and potentially no forward firepower means that this ship should sit back behind my lines fully abeam of the enemy.

[horizon]

The warden is better, spend the 5 points and get a better vessel

I still tend to view them as 2 separate fleets.



Castellan = okay, should be 45pts ideally. I like this variant (pdd).
Protector = not a fleet engagement vessel to be told. It is more of a raider. Though the pdd variant is even slight weaker it performs excellent.
(it is time I am going to write sumtin on sumtin I am tinkering with a lot lately...).

Maybe it is me but in every variant of the Tau rules I was confident and got great results. Biggest loss was when due a backlash a Protector blew up in the middle of fleet dropping all shields on the other vessels... with Chaos having next turn... alas...

Sig, did you play with mms Eldar and so if with what variant of the rules?

[Sigoroth]

1.9 MMS

[horizon]

Good you.