Space Marine Fleet ER

[BaronIveagh]

Uh huh, but really who would you think will win out in a battle bet SM and AM?

Depends.  There's a lot of variety in AM skitarii.  The skitarii attached to Legio Invicta would win hands down against SM, due to a combination of being genetically enhanced, power-armored supermen themselves and their extensive experience fighting, among other things, elements of the traitor legions.  Also in the 'win in (relatively) short order' would be

1) the skitarii that were deployed to Tarsis Ultra following it's destruction by Honsu, as each is effectively a SM terminator
2) Legio Cybernetica forces, as their standard issue soldier carries the same weaponry as a SM dreadnought does.  Literally, they're interchangeable, since the dread is a derivative from them. 

Suggest but not definite. We are sure SM does a lot of fighting both on offense and defense. I would still wager SM are better since they were designed to be better from the start.

I can only 'definite' double the total number of SM in the universe, but I can only 'suggest' about 23 to 1 or higher if each Titan legion and Ordinatus legion has the same number of troops attached to it, but they're stated to vary.  As far as designed better, only becasue the Emperor says so.  In real combat, most magii's tech gaurd designs, with the exception of the lasgun equipped ones (since retconned to hellguns), would give them a run for thier money and probably inflict heavy losses even if defeated.

However, as the posterboys of 40k, SM enjoy the power of marketing over the AM, who have no TT minis atm aside from tech preists, techmarines, and Titans, so SM will win most of the time due to magic asspulls and the AM suddenly unplugging their brains and obligingly charging straight into heavy weapons like khornate berzerkers, while leaving their own, up until now, effective weapons behind for some reason. 

Adeptus Mechanicus: When it absolutely, positively, must be destroyed down to the atomic level RIGHT NOW.

[Sigoroth]

SMs killed the Emperor. End of story.

[BaronIveagh]

SMs killed the Emperor. End of story.

If he had actually died, maybe, but a central tenet of the Imperial Faith is that the Emperor is still alive (and, atm, according to fluff, he really is still alive).  So, um, no.

[Vaaish]

I think that your definition of "alive" is a little bit of a stretch. There are a few cells of his physical form still alive but he's not getting up or doing much these days. For all intents and purposes Horus killed the emperor's physical form even if you can technically claim he's "alive". He's definitely been incapacitated for the last 10k years or so.

[BaronIveagh]

I think that your definition of "alive" is a little bit of a stretch. There are a few cells of his physical form still alive but he's not getting up or doing much these days. For all intents and purposes Horus killed the emperor's physical form even if you can technically claim he's "alive". He's definitely been incapacitated for the last 10k years or so.

It's a little more complicate then that.  Particularly since he was together enough afterwards to issue all sorts of orders until Girlyman got to Terra.  Including overseeing heavy alterations to the Golden Throne.

Though, rumor has it that he will finally expire in 6th edition.  While I'm not holding my breath, it would fit the trend of boneheaded moves in fluff that GW has been making.

[Zhukov]

Horizon,

We didn't get a reply from GW!  I may go to Gamesday this year and just hand it over to Andy Hall. 

Cheers,

RayB HA

Hey Ray,

Were you able to go to Gamesday? Did you get to talk to anyone regarding the rules updates?

-Zhukov

[RayB HA]

Hi Guys, long time no speak,

I've been unable to connect to the forum for a while, so sorry for the blank stares.

I have played through many playtests in that time, I don't see the 2nd shield doing much in anything but small games (which makes sense). However SM's will suffer misfortune more keenly than anyone else, so the 2nd shield can give you a chance to brace if the first volley takes down both shields beyond the averages (but only if the first volley doesn't make you brace anyway).

When I find the time I'll put up a few of the really good playtests. 

Zhukov,

UK Gamesday isn't until the end of September, I'll be there though! 

Cheers,

RayB HA 

[horizon]

I have played through many playtests in that time, I don't see the 2nd shield doing much in anything but small games (which makes sense). However SM's will suffer misfortune more keenly than anyone else, so the 2nd shield can give you a chance to brace if the first volley takes down both shields beyond the averages (but only if the first volley doesn't make you brace anyway).

How weird!! I destroy many marines, chapters killed, in 1500pts games due the fact they only have 1 shield. I think a 2nd shield is more needed in larger games then in smaller games!! This as the enemy can concentrate more in larger games on 1 ship.

If you look at it I think I have eridicated the Dark Angels Chapter from existence. Plus more.

[RayB HA]

horizon,

In larger games the 2nd shield does so little because there is so much enemy firepower. A shield is a straight point of damage saved rather than a percentile save (like bracing, 50%avg sv), so against smaller volleys/fleets shields are more worth while than in larger games. Cracking 2 6+ shields in a 500pt game is hard work unless you have something special (like a NC!).

Cheers,

RayB

[fracas]

Larger games also would allow more strike cruisers, thus more diffusion among more targets?

[RayB HA]

fracas,

There would be more strike cruisers, but the ability to focus your fire on just one or 2 is still there, especially for Chaos.

Cheers,

RayB

[horizon]

You have a weird logic. Shields are 'hitpoints' that comeback if the blastmarker goes away.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Just out of curiousity, the thing about shields requiring armor penetration has been brought up before. Does everyone think the time is ripe to separate the shield from the Armor mechanic? Like shields needing hits on 5+(blanket rule) to be brought down and then the armor value comes into play?

It is a bit weird that not not all shields are created equal, esp in the IN+SM alliance.

[horizon]

That is an idea worthwhile exploring.

[fracas]

So what happens when I have 10 batteries dice and roll 3 5s. 2 takes down shield and I roll one die to penetrate armor?


Would rather see shields as saves the defender rolls for. This generate a dynamic for the defender to participate in rather than just passively watch his ship getting shot at. And bfi simply improves this.
Like what necron have?