Nova Class SM Frigate

[Snakeb1te]

I thought it was an established principle that Space Marine vessels should not have access to lance weaponry. Why does the Nova Class have one then?

[Vaaish]

Marine capital ships are generally restricted from taking lances, but the Nova is allowed since it's a smaller and easier to take out escort. Doesn't mean that the IN like marines having them, but it is rare enough that they aren't bothered to do anything about the nova.

[Snakeb1te]

Oh ok that makes sense. A Battle Barge with a lance is much scarier than a lowly escort with one. Thanks.

[lastspartacus]

There is no mention in any piece of GW written text that refers to lances only being allowed on escort class ships.

That is merely the assumption that fans who dislike the idea of marines having lance options assign to it.

A lance is a lance.  The facts are that the Nova is the only official marine vessel to have a lance option right now on the tabletop, and in fluff it is known that marines are not supposed to have lances, but push the rules as much as they can without risking reprisal.

[Snakeb1te]

Yeah I understand that. But I was just wondering about it in general.

[Vaaish]

That is merely the assumption that fans who dislike the idea of marines having lance options assign to it

That's quite incorrect. It is the logical conclusion from the Nova fluff that lances on anything bigger would be severely restricted, frowned upon, or worse. There are references to marines having lances in heresy-era ships and debatable references to marine ships using lances in 40k fluff.

The best scenario is that the IN and Imperial leadership would do what it can to prevent marines from having widespread access to primarily anti-ship weapons like lances although there could be rare instances where such weapons are found on Marine capital ships.

This would be based on the standard pattern strike cruisers and battlebarges not mounting such weapons in BFG, epic stats for both ships weaponry also lacking lance or pinpoint attacks, and again the fluff for the nova pointing to the rarity of lances in Marine fleets while 40k fluff references could be interpreted as lances are not completely restricted or totally unheard of on their capital ships.

[lastspartacus]

What fluff blurb indicates through logical conclusion that lances are restricted due to vessel size?

[Vaaish]

The nova blurb from the BFG armada book. IN doesn't like the nova because it's a gunship yet have no stated problem with the gladius. That asks the question what makes the nova different from the gladius. Comparing the two ships the only real difference in weapons is the nova has a lance and the gladius doesn't. The text also says that the lance+speed makes it a gunship in its own right while lacking assault and transport capability. From that you can conclude the IN doesn't like the Nova in a large part because it has a lance. The logical extension is that if the IN doesn't like the lance one a ship that small, they REALLY wouldn't like to see it on anything larger and would do whatever they could to prevent it from showing up with any regularity.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

(Munching popcorn and drinking Coke while watching another sequel of the same movie and thinking here we go again.)

[Vaaish]

I'm being careful this time

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

(munch, munch, munch, gulp...rinse, repeat)

[Zelnik]

*insert six months of foaming-at-the-brain arguments here*

In the end, if you read the space marine fluff in the armada book, one of the major checks and balances upon the space marines was the restriction to transport vessels. Only their escort craft could be warships.  The only reason why the space marines fight in space with such effectiveness is because they are space marines.  Nuff said.

[horizon]

LS, really brings up that argument again? We had a 50+ discussion on the same subject.... people have cut of internet access because of it haahha.

I agree with Vaaish & Zelnik and the fanboi's who dislike lances for Marines. ha!

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

(munch, munch, munch, gulp...)

[Plaxor]

We all voted, we all hate marines, for life!

Actually I think it just has to do something with fanboyism. Only for space marines will people argue that they can do anything ever. Well... maybe jedi.

Still, space marines do have limitations, and paranoid governing bodies watching over them. No they can't walk on water, and they cannot pick and choose which rules they obey (although a fair number of writers seem to think that they do *cough Matt Ward cough*)

In any story characters with limitations are the ones most interesting. 40k set up a universe where humanity is doomed, and there isn't anything they can do about it, and due to their archaic ideologies and methods it is pulling them down faster.

However I can only think of 1 40k novel where the Imperium loses, "Storm of Iron". Every other one it's a close call, or even when chaos/tyranids/necrons win, they still lose.

With how the latest 40k codecies have been (since IG) I'm wondering where they will go with newer fluff. They seem to keep escalating it to more dramatic heights than before.

I mean in CSW you had space wolves jumping (not teleporting, jumping!) from their exploding strike cruiser to a chaos ship, taking it over and killing the other chaos ships.

In Blood Angels, you have them allying with necrons, and then just happily walking away from one another.

In Grey knights you have someone 'purifying a bloodthirsters axe' and carving his name into a Daemon-Primarchs heart, while in the warp.

The only possible escalation here is having black templar wipe out some other galaxy of psykers while on their crusade. (even though intergalactic travel isn't possible).

Ugh, at least before this the fluff was reasonable, like the Red Corsairs capture of the Wolf of Fenris. Rather than Huron Blackheart just appearing out of nowhere, killing everyone, and piloting a cruiser on his own.