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Author Topic: Space Marine Lances  (Read 12955 times)

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2011, 08:28:26 PM »
Then they shouldn't have written that. Or the rules for lances should not be as they are. The two are mutually exclusive.

Sorry.  40k is full of things that are mutually exclusive, I've found.

No, they don't match up. You don't see orbital strikes in 40k with a 100m radius. Obviously what is an orbital strike in fluff is significantly different from what constitutes an orbital strike in game.

That's because there are only two blast templates in 40k, and it's obviously not going to be the small one.  Also, Space Marines are individually capable of killing an entire 1500 point IG force in fluff, so I just think of it being nerfed to scale.   IIRC in Apoc they use the XL blast template instead, which is about 100m.

No, every weapon can be used against ships. Against mobile targets weapons fare worse. Bombardment cannon fare worse. Even torps fare worse. Lances however, do not fare worse. In fact, they fare worse than the alternatives against stationary targets. The only point to taking them in place of the other weapon systems is to use specifically against ships.

Or against precise targets on the ground, given their much smaller area of mass destruction compared to Weapon batteries.  1km vs 10-20km of damage.  The area that armor and cover saves do not apply is fairly small with a lance.  Here's what seems to be eluding you.  Marines are surgical strike experts.  A Bombardment canon deals damage comparable to a nuke, demolishing things for 20km.  A lance more comparable to a MOAB, but with better armor penetration on the target.  Which is better for close support?  

No one is less trustworthy than SMs. This is because they are more powerful than anyone else. They are far far harder to control. And when they rebel they are far harder to put down and are far more likely to be able to exert influence over Imperial forces. If you throw on top of that no restrictions on their fleets then they are for all intents and purposes uncontrollable.

Wait... Space Marines are less trustworthy then Rogue Traders?  The paragons of humanity's defenders are less trustworthy then a group that sells out the Imperium on a regular basis, and has, on occasion, destroyed entire Sectors or successfully led them in rebellion against the Imperium.  That head up the Inquisitions list of 'the usual Suspects' hot on the heels of Xenos and the Ruinous Powers? That finance and occasionally lead the Crusades that the Imperium uses to conquer sectors.  Those guys?

Virus bombs and Nova cannon are meaningless in the hands of people easily conquered, assassinated or controlled.

Assassinating a Rogue Trader is not easy.  A lord Sector would actually be simpler.  The reason is that it's hard to know where one might turn up next, and most of them are highly paranoid about just that, having survived their own siblings attempts to eliminate them during their rise to power.  Considering that Rogue Traders recruit their assassins from the same Death Cults that the Inquisition does, and may, in fact, have their own private death cult on board their ship on the look out for other assassins... well...

The other option is to deploy a navy task force to hunt a rogue trader, but this can also prove difficult.  Rogue Traders spend much of their time in areas with little or no Imperial presence to report intelligence on their movements.  More frightening, on occasions, IN task forces sent to eliminate a rogue trader have been destroyed, vanished, or worst, been taken by said rogue trader and added to their private fleet.

What? Of course the traitor legions are a threat. It's absurd to think otherwise. As for the "oh noes, we're outnumbered" idea, they're Space Marines, they're used to fighting against superior numbers. In fact, they're expected to. Also, that overwhelming Imperial Navy is spread out all over the galaxy. If SMs are no threat at all to the Imperium then they're also no use to it. They're numbers are too insignificant to make them worth mentioning. Delete the fleet.

The fact is that that the Imperium wants is to be able to soundly defeat any SM fleet on a 1 for 1 basis. Not on a 2000 to 1 basis. It is natural for Imperial commanders to grow concerned over any steps by the SM in the direction of battlefleet. This includes putting lances on ships.

Well, one, most SM fleets are also spread throughout the Imperium.  The 'SM fleet' as exists in BFG would be an average chapter amassing their entire fleet in one spot.  Which in fluff is nearly unheard of.  Most commonly, one or two strike cruisers might be gathered together.  Granted, there are chapters such as the Black Templars or Space Wolves which have much larger fleets, but the Armada SM fleet is an anomaly.  The Crusade and Dominion fleets make sense in the context of fluff, though Crusade might have some lances, and Dominion should DEFINITELY have 'real' lances, as they are doing the job that normally is preformed BY IN, in regions that IN has no jurisdiction.  

OT: as far as 'than' and 'then' when typing on forums or in reviews, I tend to type in the same manner I speak.  This does include such verbal oddities as misusing 'than', as in the region I hail from, 'than' and 'then' sound pretty much the same when spoken.  You should count yourself fortunate that I mentally edit out such other peculiarities as 'dan tan' for 'down town' and 'warsh' for 'wash'.  I hesitate to imagine your suffering in an area where one might be asked to 'red up' or go watch the 'Stellers' play across the 'Mon' while downing an 'imp and arn'.  
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2011, 04:59:55 AM »
Sorry.  40k is full of things that are mutually exclusive, I've found.

Well, let's hand waive away examples for the moment. Does that mean that we should do the same in BFG? It is my opinion that these fluff authors, and yes, even rules authors, make rules that are inconsistent because they're just not aware of the implications. Law of unintended consequences. In BFG they realised that giving SMs lances would be counter to the main canon fluff. So they tried to rectify the situation by giving them an alternative weapon system and wrote fluff to illustrate the problem (re: the nova).


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That's because there are only two blast templates in 40k, and it's obviously not going to be the small one.  Also, Space Marines are individually capable of killing an entire 1500 point IG force in fluff, so I just think of it being nerfed to scale.   IIRC in Apoc they use the XL blast template instead, which is about 100m.

Or against precise targets on the ground, given their much smaller area of mass destruction compared to Weapon batteries.  1km vs 10-20km of damage.  The area that armor and cover saves do not apply is fairly small with a lance.  Here's what seems to be eluding you.  Marines are surgical strike experts.  A Bombardment canon deals damage comparable to a nuke, demolishing things for 20km.  A lance more comparable to a MOAB, but with better armor penetration on the target.  Which is better for close support?  

I find that a little convenient. You're using the fluff to argue for a specific weapon system on SM ships, citing as evidence the rules of a different (related) game system which themselves don't match the fluff. But this discrepancy is fine because there are a lot of other discrepancies in the same game. Not terribly convincing.

As for whether or not SMs have access to pinpoint orbital barrage weaponry, I'm willing to stipulate that they do. But we know that weapon batteries are not made up of a single system, there are in fact many different weapon types in this category. While in BFG they are used for area saturation and can also be used for area saturation in orbital strikes I don't see what makes it impossible to dial back both the number of guns and the intensity of the gun for more precise orbital strikes. I imagine that laser batteries would easily be able to do this. Targeting wouldn't be much of a problem from a geosynchronous orbit. Pretty much simply a matter of striking a stationary target. The point here is that SMs having precise orbital strikes does not necessarily entail lances. The same can be achieved from weapon batteries.

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Wait... Space Marines are less trustworthy then Rogue Traders?  The paragons of humanity's defenders are less trustworthy then a group that sells out the Imperium on a regular basis, and has, on occasion, destroyed entire Sectors or successfully led them in rebellion against the Imperium.  That head up the Inquisitions list of 'the usual Suspects' hot on the heels of Xenos and the Ruinous Powers? That finance and occasionally lead the Crusades that the Imperium uses to conquer sectors.  Those guys?

Yes. If you were asking either a Space Marine or a Rogue Trader to babysit for you, the SM would likely be the most trustworthy of the two. However, since you're leaving your children in the hands of the SM then they're the ones that you're going to place a lot more restrictions on. They're the ones you're going to watch out for. Particularly as they've been known to molest children.

This metaphor is pretty much the state of play for the Imperium. They rely upon the SMs. They need them. If they didn't need them they'd have rid themselves of them a long time ago. The SMs are elite, and because of this, and the Imperiums need of them, they're very very hard to control. They are a force unto themselves and do pretty much as they please. The Inquisition has little to no control over them. The only real control the Imperium has over their "child-molesting babysitter" is the IN.

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Assassinating a Rogue Trader is not easy.  A lord Sector would actually be simpler.  The reason is that it's hard to know where one might turn up next, and most of them are highly paranoid about just that, having survived their own siblings attempts to eliminate them during their rise to power.  Considering that Rogue Traders recruit their assassins from the same Death Cults that the Inquisition does, and may, in fact, have their own private death cult on board their ship on the look out for other assassins... well...

The other option is to deploy a navy task force to hunt a rogue trader, but this can also prove difficult.  Rogue Traders spend much of their time in areas with little or no Imperial presence to report intelligence on their movements.  More frightening, on occasions, IN task forces sent to eliminate a rogue trader have been destroyed, vanished, or worst, been taken by said rogue trader and added to their private fleet.

Well I'll have to take your word for al this. But even taken as read, so what? RTs still make up a tremendous minority of threats to the Imperium, and they're dealt with in the same manner any other insurrection. The IN, IG, SM and other imperial bodies respond and eventually put them down. If RTs were that much of a threat then the Imperium would end up placing more restrictions upon them and monitor them more closely.

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Well, one, most SM fleets are also spread throughout the Imperium.  The 'SM fleet' as exists in BFG would be an average chapter amassing their entire fleet in one spot.  Which in fluff is nearly unheard of.  Most commonly, one or two strike cruisers might be gathered together.  Granted, there are chapters such as the Black Templars or Space Wolves which have much larger fleets, but the Armada SM fleet is an anomaly.  The Crusade and Dominion fleets make sense in the context of fluff, though Crusade might have some lances, and Dominion should DEFINITELY have 'real' lances, as they are doing the job that normally is preformed BY IN, in regions that IN has no jurisdiction.  

Well, presumably, if a SM chapter were to rebel they would muster their fleet rather than leave it spread. As for the Dominion fleet needing lances, no. SM ships are purpose designed. If they wish to use them for other purposes (such as fleet engagements) then that is up to them. The restrictions against doing so would not be waived simply because the SM have a need. If they really need warships then they requisition IN support. If, for some reason, the IN has no ships spare to aid them, then they make do with the ships they've got.

The restrictions upon SM ships are designed to make them bad at fleet engagements and area control. This is because of Imperium fears of these being used against them. The Imperium isn't afraid of these being used against enemies or for the good and stability of the Imperium so they're "allowed' to make the attempt. They're just not allowed the proper equipment for the job. The IN is their to be called upon should they require assistance in either of these spheres.

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OT: as far as 'than' and 'then' when typing on forums or in reviews, I tend to type in the same manner I speak.  This does include such verbal oddities as misusing 'than', as in the region I hail from, 'than' and 'then' sound pretty much the same when spoken.  You should count yourself fortunate that I mentally edit out such other peculiarities as 'dan tan' for 'down town' and 'warsh' for 'wash'.  I hesitate to imagine your suffering in an area where one might be asked to 'red up' or go watch the 'Stellers' play across the 'Mon' while downing an 'imp and arn'.  

Heh, well I have encountered the error a lot from yanks on forums and other online sources. This lead me to believe it was a systemic fault, rather than a passing momentary mistake that we all make. I was unsure whether it was an education fault or the result of accent. I thought it might be more an accent thing and this seems to confirm that. What the hell does 'red up', 'Mon' and 'imp and arn' mean? I imagine the Stellers to be some sort of sport team, baseball or gridiron or something so that's not too unintelligible. But the rest ...

Offline Trasvi

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2011, 04:23:33 PM »
Off Topic: 'Than' is for comparison. For example, 'Greater than'.
'Then' is for time succession. For example, 'I will paint my models, then I will play a game.'

On Topic: I'd take anything written in the GK codex with a bucket full of salt. The part where the Grey Knights slaughter a bunch of Sisters, smear the blood over their armor before going off to kill demons?.... The semantics of 'lance' are the least of your worries.

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2011, 08:03:26 PM »
As for whether or not SMs have access to pinpoint orbital barrage weaponry, I'm willing to stipulate that they do. But we know that weapon batteries are not made up of a single system, there are in fact many different weapon types in this category. While in BFG they are used for area saturation and can also be used for area saturation in orbital strikes I don't see what makes it impossible to dial back both the number of guns and the intensity of the gun for more precise orbital strikes. I imagine that laser batteries would easily be able to do this. Targeting wouldn't be much of a problem from a geosynchronous orbit. Pretty much simply a matter of striking a stationary target. The point here is that SMs having precise orbital strikes does not necessarily entail lances. The same can be achieved from weapon batteries.

While I grant there are a large number of weapon battery variants in fluff, and it might be possible one of them does what you suggest, the problem is that it's not the one officially on a strike cruiser (who's stats lead me to believe it's a mars pattern macrocannon).  


This metaphor is pretty much the state of play for the Imperium. They rely upon the SMs. They need them. If they didn't need them they'd have rid themselves of them a long time ago. The SMs are elite, and because of this, and the Imperiums need of them, they're very very hard to control. They are a force unto themselves and do pretty much as they please. The Inquisition has little to no control over them. The only real control the Imperium has over their "child-molesting babysitter" is the IN.

The problem with that is, historically, the IN is the first Imperial organization to go over to the Space Marines when a large scale local insurrection of space marine chapters takes place.  (See the Horus Heresy and Badab War).  Point of fact, IN has rebelled against the Imperium or joined the Ruinous Powers MORE frequently than (fixed) space marines have.  

Well, presumably, if a SM chapter were to rebel they would muster their fleet rather than leave it spread. As for the Dominion fleet needing lances, no. SM ships are purpose designed. If they wish to use them for other purposes (such as fleet engagements) then that is up to them. The restrictions against doing so would not be waived simply because the SM have a need. If they really need warships then they requisition IN support. If, for some reason, the IN has no ships spare to aid them, then they make do with the ships they've got.

Which has on occasion bitten the IN really hard, and directly lead to the near annihilation of Battlefleet Bakka during the First Tyrannic War.  It's implied, though not stated, that Ultramar now has it's own defense fleet now, which more or less reports to Calgar, as Ruler of Ultramar, rather than (fixed) Chapter Master of the Ultramarines.  In the Imperium, it helps to have several hats, particularly if one is 'Lord Sector'.  

The restrictions upon SM ships are designed to make them bad at fleet engagements and area control. This is because of Imperium fears of these being used against them. The Imperium isn't afraid of these being used against enemies or for the good and stability of the Imperium so they're "allowed' to make the attempt. They're just not allowed the proper equipment for the job. The IN is their to be called upon should they require assistance in either of these spheres.

Again, this has never stopped them from simply co-opting the IN sector fleet.  This has happened several times in fluff, even though 'officially' they have no or limited authority over IN.  

Heh, well I have encountered the error a lot from yanks on forums and other online sources. This lead me to believe it was a systemic fault, rather than a passing momentary mistake that we all make. I was unsure whether it was an education fault or the result of accent. I thought it might be more an accent thing and this seems to confirm that. What the hell does 'red up', 'Mon' and 'imp and arn' mean? I imagine the Stellers to be some sort of sport team, baseball or gridiron or something so that's not too unintelligible. But the rest ...

I welcome yins farginers to da 'Burgh.   ;D

Pittspeak fer beginnaz:

Yins guys will learn yas that 'Red up' is 'clean up' or 'straighten up' or, more rarely, 'get ready' (similar to 'ready up' which seems to have been a common slang term for get ready anyplace there was a major train depot) .  The 'Mon' in the Monongahela River.  'Chipchop'ed 'am' is very thinly sliced chipped ham in the sanwich at da deli 'n at.  An 'imp and arn' is a shot of Crown Imperial and a 'pint' of Iron City.  If anyone offers yins an Allergayney Whitefish, do not offer to taste it, it's a condom floating down the river, and they're jerking yer chain, the jagoffs.

And since yins is feelin nebby, the 'Stellers' are, very obviously, the Pittsburgh Steelers.     ;)


The sad part is that I haven't lived there for ten years and I still slip up. 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 08:09:14 PM by BaronIveagh »
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Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2011, 03:48:10 AM »
While I grant there are a large number of weapon battery variants in fluff, and it might be possible one of them does what you suggest, the problem is that it's not the one officially on a strike cruiser (who's stats lead me to believe it's a mars pattern macrocannon).  

Well if the choice comes down to giving SMs weaponry they're not supposed to have or hand waiving that they've got the right type of weapon battery to suit their needs, I'll take the latter, as the lesser of two evils.

The problem with that is, historically, the IN is the first Imperial organization to go over to the Space Marines when a large scale local insurrection of space marine chapters takes place.  (See the Horus Heresy and Badab War).  Point of fact, IN has rebelled against the Imperium or joined the Ruinous Powers MORE frequently than (fixed) space marines have.  

No doubt they do. This is likely due to the awesome presence of the SMs themselves. But this is the point. If the SMs are so influential that they can sometimes bring a superior force to their side then what chance would a loyal navy commander have if he were going up against equal or superior ships? As for IN rebellions, whilst all rebellions of any sort are a threat that needs to be put down, they are not of the magnitude of a SM rebellion, because the SMs are superior troops. It is easier to put down human rebellions than SM rebellions.

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Which has on occasion bitten the IN really hard, and directly lead to the near annihilation of Battlefleet Bakka during the First Tyrannic War.  It's implied, though not stated, that Ultramar now has it's own defense fleet now, which more or less reports to Calgar, as Ruler of Ultramar, rather than (fixed) Chapter Master of the Ultramarines.  In the Imperium, it helps to have several hats, particularly if one is 'Lord Sector'.  

While I don't doubt that leaving the SMs to do the job of the IN with SM ships could end in catastrophic results, this seems an argument to have the IN take over sector defence more than anything else. Also, the Tyrannic war isn't the best example to bring up, since WBs and BC are actually better against Nids than lances anyway.

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Again, this has never stopped them from simply co-opting the IN sector fleet.  This has happened several times in fluff, even though 'officially' they have no or limited authority over IN.  

Yep, and this is a failure of the commanding officers of the IN forces. Not a failure of policy. If the IN were not able to defeat the SMs on a 1 to 1 basis  then this would be a failure of policy. This means that for their rebellion to be successful the SMs depend upon regular humans. This is the point. For a rebellion to be successful it requires more than just the actions of 1 man. Spreading the power makes rebellions much harder. Who knows how many rebellions have been stopped before they started because the SMs doubted their ability to convert/destroy the local IN force?

I welcome yins farginers to da 'Burgh.   ;D

Pittspeak fer beginnaz:

Yins guys will learn yas that 'Red up' is 'clean up' or 'straighten up' or, more rarely, 'get ready' (similar to 'ready up' which seems to have been a common slang term for get ready anyplace there was a major train depot) .  The 'Mon' in the Monongahela River.  'Chipchop'ed 'am' is very thinly sliced chipped ham in the sanwich at da deli 'n at.  An 'imp and arn' is a shot of Crown Imperial and a 'pint' of Iron City.  If anyone offers yins an Allergayney Whitefish, do not offer to taste it, it's a condom floating down the river, and they're jerking yer chain, the jagoffs.

And since yins is feelin nebby, the 'Stellers' are, very obviously, the Pittsburgh Steelers.     ;)


The sad part is that I haven't lived there for ten years and I still slip up. 

Wow. That's, er, weird.

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2011, 05:23:59 AM »

No doubt they do. This is likely due to the awesome presence of the SMs themselves. But this is the point. If the SMs are so influential that they can sometimes bring a superior force to their side then what chance would a loyal navy commander have if he were going up against equal or superior ships? As for IN rebellions, whilst all rebellions of any sort are a threat that needs to be put down, they are not of the magnitude of a SM rebellion, because the SMs are superior troops. It is easier to put down human rebellions than SM rebellions.

Except that historically, with the exception of the Horus Heresy and the Badab War, it's been the other way around.  It's Space Marine rebellions that have been quickly and easily squashed, and not by the IN at all, but by their fellow Space Marines, and it's been IN rebellions that have been vastly more successful, to the extent that the Nova Terra Interregnum lasted the better part of a thousand years when the entire Segmentum Pacificus broke from the Imperium.  Space Marines were largely uninvolved.

While I don't doubt that leaving the SMs to do the job of the IN with SM ships could end in catastrophic results, this seems an argument to have the IN take over sector defence more than anything else. Also, the Tyrannic war isn't the best example to bring up, since WBs and BC are actually better against Nids than lances anyway.

The point was that there are locations such as Ultramar that are, effectively, not part of the Imperium, for one reason or another.  The Emperor set aside Ultramar for all intents and purposes as a smaller, allied, kingdom.  The Inquisition has found this infuriating, as it technically means that they have no authority there, and have placed such surveillance equipment as they can in orbit around the planets of that region, since they're apparently forbidden to have actual agents there without the Ultramarines invitation.

Yep, and this is a failure of the commanding officers of the IN forces. Not a failure of policy. If the IN were not able to defeat the SMs on a 1 to 1 basis  then this would be a failure of policy. This means that for their rebellion to be successful the SMs depend upon regular humans. This is the point. For a rebellion to be successful it requires more than just the actions of 1 man. Spreading the power makes rebellions much harder. Who knows how many rebellions have been stopped before they started because the SMs doubted their ability to convert/destroy the local IN force?

If fluff is to be believed, None.  You're forgetting that Space Marines are conditioned against feeling doubt. 

Let me give you a scenario: In secret a chapter goes bad.  It's been made very plain in the past that Space Marines have full access to the IN's facilities, ostensibly for repair and refit.  Two or three squads of space marines have, in the past, proven more then able to take over an entire cruisers. 

The standard IN procedure during what passes for peace in a sector is a series of years long patrols where only a handful are in port at any given time, and only use a handful of depots and ports.

What's to stop the space marines from taking over each ship, one at a time, as they reach dock, either taking command themselves or replacing the command crew with chapter serfs?  Particularly since fluff has a Master of the Fleet having command access on the same level as a Lord Admiral.  Theoretically, they could replace almost the entire fleet's officers before anyone would suspect a thing. 

Wow. That's, er, weird.

Like any other language, English has regional dialects.  At least it's not as bad as Spanish where whole verb conjugations get dropped or Chinese where, before the modern era, some dialects were so thick that they were only bound by a common written language. 
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline Hengest

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2011, 08:31:19 PM »
I wouldnt actually blame the new codex for contradicting fluff.
I haven't seen or read the new GK codex but it sound like they have got the ideas from previous sources.
Back in early 2003 there was a short story in White Dwarf written by Graham McNeill called rise of the zombies. It was about an inquisitor, his retinue and a Thunderhawk complement's of grey knights all trying to destroy/banish some demon and a mass grave's worth of zombies.
When the mission went belly up and they had to retreat and withdraw from the area the Inquisitor called for a lance strike from starship that had brought them there. Since they had deployed by Thunderhawk the implication is that it was marine ship.
Interestingly in that very same WD is an excellent specialist games article about a game called BFG. Something called "To Cleanse the Stars" (sound familiar?) and it was all about space marine fleets. Exactly the same BFG fluff we are used to (i.e only Novas get lances etc etc)
Now whether this lance is exactly the same lance as the anti ship lances or a sub set of another weapon system is open to debate - its only a name

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2011, 02:43:05 AM »
That's not too bad.  A couple times I've seen them put two totally contradicting statements on the same page from the same author, let alone in the same publication with two different ones. 
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline Zhukov

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2011, 07:05:09 AM »
I welcome yins farginers to da 'Burgh.   ;D

Pittspeak fer beginnaz:

Yins guys will learn yas that 'Red up' is 'clean up' or 'straighten up' or, more rarely, 'get ready' (similar to 'ready up' which seems to have been a common slang term for get ready anyplace there was a major train depot) .  The 'Mon' in the Monongahela River.  'Chipchop'ed 'am' is very thinly sliced chipped ham in the sanwich at da deli 'n at.  An 'imp and arn' is a shot of Crown Imperial and a 'pint' of Iron City.  If anyone offers yins an Allergayney Whitefish, do not offer to taste it, it's a condom floating down the river, and they're jerking yer chain, the jagoffs.

And since yins is feelin nebby, the 'Stellers' are, very obviously, the Pittsburgh Steelers.     ;)


The sad part is that I haven't lived there for ten years and I still slip up. 


That. Is. Awesome.

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Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2011, 07:53:57 AM »
I live right outside the region where people inside really talk like the Saturday Night Live "DAAAAAAA bears..." people. Chicago has a pretty hideous accent. At least I'm not from WisCAAAnsin... Or England *ducks*

JK  :-X

....or Pittsburg

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2011, 03:55:53 AM »
LOL Don diss da city of Chaaampians. 
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Offline RayB HA

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2011, 04:23:12 PM »
Taking 2 specialist games Epic and BFG, lances can kill ships or Titans, they don't or can't aim them at a rhino, squad of men or garden shed!

Occassionally the 'Orbital strike relay' or equivelent has been described more sensibly as a marker light for low/sub Orbital bombers.

A lance strike would hit an entire 40K board. Forget the template!  ;)

Cheers,

RayB HA

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Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2011, 11:29:42 PM »
Taking 2 specialist games Epic and BFG, lances can kill ships or Titans, they don't or can't aim them at a rhino, squad of men or garden shed!

Occassionally the 'Orbital strike relay' or equivelent has been described more sensibly as a marker light for low/sub Orbital bombers.

A lance strike would hit an entire 40K board. Forget the template!  ;)

Cheers,

RayB HA


Ray, I can't say I've ever read that sub orbital bombers description anywhere. 

The problem is that now we have 4 different explanations, including the one where you're radioing co-ordinates to an orbiting starship which make a bakers dozen skill checks and then pulls the trigger (FFG) that there's a magic same name weapon that never gets mentioned elsewhere (Sigoroth),  that the ship is firing with a reduced yield (Ultramarines, Planetstrike), or that it's a weapon battery being mistaken for a lance strike by the authors.


Personally, I want to know, how, on any of them, attenuation is so bad that a weapon 50m in diameter fires a beam 500m in diameter? 
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2011, 12:10:31 AM »
50m does not necessarily have to translate to a 500m diameter at the end although lenses could increase the diameter by the tie the lance strike hits land.

However, the more realistic answer is the effect of the lance strike can cover 500m area and this includes the explosion generated by said strike.

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Space Marine Lances
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2011, 01:11:59 AM »
BaronIveagh,

After a fair while searching through my codexes I think I hit upon where I read the description. Planetstrike! So 'that' really is low orbital aircraft strikes rather than low orbit strikes from a space ship. It is what it is.

Strikes from a ship in low orbit are too broad to be represented in 40K except as a time limit for the game or prior to deployment!

Cheers,

RayB HA
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!