This thread is about the Invincible Class Heavy Battlecruiser and reasons for its inclusion in BFG:R Bakka List The original profiles says it's a Fast battleship, but Fast Battleships are a technical evolution that doesn't generally trade anything for its speed. It's a true Battlecruiser, but BFG uses the term battlecruiser slightly differently, hence why I'm calling it a Heavy Battlecruiser.
The original profile is:
Battleship8 Shields2 Speed25 Turns45 AV6+/5+ Turrets4
Prow Torps S6 F
P/SB WBs FP12@60cm L/R
Dorsal Lances S4@60cm F/L/R
Special Rules: May not CTNH, Rolls 2D6 for each hit to determine if criticals are scored, and may even take 2 criticals per hit if both come up 6+.
This is effectively the same weapons fit as the previous incarnation of Retribution, before we fixed it (if you accept that one dorsal lance @60cm F/L/R is equivalent to 3 torps, which I think is a fair trade).
For this battleship level firepower, it traded in four hits, 2 shields, and a special rule that doubles its chance of criticals.
So why should it be included in BFG:R? Because the Battlecruiser (big B) concept is awesome: Fast enough to outrun anything that can catch it, powerful enough to destroy anything that can.
That said, there are a number of issues with the profile as it stands:
- 4 Dorsal Lances is a no-no. The max for that hardpoint is 3 Lances.
- The Retribution has been up-gunned, leaving the Invincible a barely-stronger-than-Armageddon.
- The Special Rule doesn't flow nicely, rolling 2D6 per hit is a deviation from standard procedure, and could be done better.
- Every other ship based on its hull has HP12 - no other ship in the game deviates from the number of hits of its hull class, save ships with the Mark of Nurgle where this is arguably due to extra mass.
So with those in mind, here are my proposed fixes:
Dorsal Lances:Down to S3@60cm. To compensate, restore the S9 Torps.
Underpowered Broadsides:The Retribution has been fixed to FP18@45cm per side, so the Invincible needs equivalent. However, due to its more fragile nature, range is going to be more important to it than pure firepower, so I propose FP15@60cm. This is FP5 per hardpoint.
Special Rule:Critical Hits on a 5+ cause a statistically identical number of hits as 2D6 on a 6+, and flows more naturally - we already have mechanisms for Crits on a 4+, and this is just a variation on a theme. It loses the possibility of double crits, but will crit more often to compensate.
HitpointsThis is the biggest issue. No other Capital ship deviates from its hull hitpoints, with nurgle-bloated mass the only exception. Some have argued that Hitpoints are a measure of Toughness - I disagree. They're a measure of physical size and crew complement. The Invincible is just as big as a regular battleship, has just as many crew as a regular battleship, and so should get as many repair dice as a regular battleship - these all say 12 Hitpoints.
So how is toughness measured? In BFG, this is reflected by the shields (already half-strength), and armour. It can also be adjusted by using special rules. Unfortunately we're rather restricted on armour - it might as well be a Chaos ship if it's 25cm 5+ prow battleship. If we had an option for AV 5.5+/4.5+, then that would probably be ideal, but we don't have such sensitive delineation.
So the first question is: Is 2 shields and double crits enough of a trade off for 25cm? I don't believe so - it's not as much as it sacrificed in its current incarnation, and it still lacks an air of fragility that should be associated with a Battlecruiser.
The second question is: What more can be done to lend it that air of a glass-cannon that a Battlecruiser is supposed to have and represent its relative lack of armour, both 5.5+/4.5+ exernally and reduced bulkhead armour internally? Well we could reduce turrets (and I think we should anyway), but that doesn't help against regular damage. My prefered option is to give all rolls on the critical hits chart a +1 modifier on , which flows naturally on from the other proposed special rule 5+ to crit.
Some would say this is punishing the Invincible three times: once through shields and twice through critical hits - but the alternative is reducing the total hits instead, which doesn't get round the three handicapping mechanisms and runs up against having a BB sized model with fewer than BB number of hits.
So my proposed profile:
Battleship12 Shields2 Speed25 Turns45 AV6+/5+ Turrets3
Prow Torps S9 F
P/SB WBs FP15@60cm L/R
Dorsal Lances S3@60cm F/L/R
Special Rules: May not CTNH. Suffers Critical hits on a 5+ instead of 6+, and also suffers a +1 modifier on the Critical hits chart.
So how many points should this be worth? It was originally 55pts cheaper than the Retribution, which would put it at 300, but it has also gained hits relative to the original profile, which put it at 320, but then it has an additional special rule on top, so somewhere in the 310-320pts range.
