Okay folks, v1.2 of the Bakka list is posted. There are so many changes incorporated, it will be easier for me to just do a fast-pass on the highlights. Once again, I’m expecting a LOT of comments on this. I will not be able to respond to them all, but I will be reading them all.
1. The Vanquisher is no longer a one-of, and its price is dropped a LOT. The profile is unchanged.
2. The Dominion has made an appearance as a regular ship. I don’t understand the attraction, but it’s here, profile unchanged. I did however have to change the fluff a bit from the Nemesis list. Unless it’s unavoidable (such as in a planetary assault), the IN does NOT use battlecruisers for convoy duty- these are expensive line ships!
2a. The Mercury can have torps for -20 points. (sigh)
3. The Jovian is NOT gone. Before you panic, that does
not mean we’re not removing it from the FINAL. The ship is specifically a one-of and a reserve vessel of Battlefleet Bakka, meaning it can’t appear anywhere else. Why I left it in is because I simply don’t get all the hate this ship is generating. It’s rule-set isn’t broken, and as a one-of reserve, a lot of ships have to already be in play before it can be taken. Finally, for being 10 points cheaper than a Mars, it only has two more launch bays and gives up a LOT of firepower for the privilege. For the same price, a Styx would whack this thing hands-down! Secondly, even if you assume a min-max fleet, it’s both a reserve ship AND a battlecruiser. The very smallest max-carrier fleet that could have one of these is four Silurias, a Mars and a Jovian, AND a 50-point fleet commander because you bounced above 750 points to get it. Even with no re-rolls, you just spent 980 points. For that same 980 points, Chaos can have a fleet commander, FOUR Devastations and a Murder. Even any other Imperial fleet isn’t doing bad: a min-max Imperial fleet can have a fleet commander, FOUR Dictators and an extra re-roll with points to spare. Keep in mind that this 980 points didn’t buy the Bakka fleet ANY extra turrets or other shiny bits so I fail to see how this can POSSIBLY be overpowering. The point is, it’s a character ship that has existed for more than a decade, and I have seen it used at least once every GamesDay I have been to and numerous times at game events with little fanfare or headache. Once again, it’s here
only for discussion, but I REALLY don’t get all the angst.
4. Fleet Defense Turrets are gone. However, Adeptus Mechanicus vessels in a Bakka fleet can have them for +5 points instead of rolling their Mechanicus Gifts normally. Additionally, as Bakka is a Segmentum forgeworld, a Bakka fleet can use AM cruisers in lieu of battlecruisers. Oh god HORRORS- AM Dictators EVERYWHERE!! Before you panic, the BASE price for an AM Dictator is 255 points, 5 points less than a Dominion.
5. Ray believes FDT’s are what gave this fleet it’s special character, and I agree with him. However, in lieu of FDT’s, all IN capital ships get +1 turret for +10 points apiece. Additionally, the Endeavor and Endurance have been made into “flak ships†by making their base cost 120 points for a base profile of 3 Turrets. Yes, this means they can also get +1 turret for +10 points. They become expensive for not a lot of firepower, but they become flak ships in a very real sense. Once again, before I hear any lip about how overpowering this is, a min-max fleet of a fleet commander, four Endeavor flak ships (+1 turret apiece), an AM Dictator and a Jovian comes to 1085 points. Because all Bakka carriers are battlecruisers, even with 2 Silurias you can’t squeeze another carrier into the fleet. Now because the Jovian is the only reserve in this fleet you can now also take a Space Marine SC, and for those two more bays (some consider SC bays to count as 3 IN bays: ok fine), the only thing you can get is one more cruiser or two more CL’s to approach 1500 points. Now let’s pretend you min-max those to get two MORE +1-turret Endeavors to bring you to 1490 points. Good job- you have ONE ship with FDT’s, only ONE other ship that exceeds 6hp, six single-shield CL flak ships with big turrets, ONE space Marine SC and a TOTAL of 12 launch bays (13 if you want to say 2 SC bays count for 3 IN bays). Now, if you can’t imagine any number of Imperial or Chaos (NOT to mention Tau, Tyranids, etc.) 1490-point fleets that can smash this flat, you are arguing because you just like to argue.
6. Space Marine strike cruisers can be taken as reserves. I suppose you can use these to skew your min-max counts, but these are pretty expensive vessels in and of themselves and in the end all you scored by taking the Jovian is two extra launchbays. In other words, I’m not debating this with a min-max argument. Post theoretical fleet lists to your heart’s content- I’m actually looking for a more convincing argument than min-max counts. Of course, if you can think of something that is actually broken, such as a min-max Bakka carrier-heavy fleet that can actually outnumber a min-maxed fleet from another race, then we need to discuss it. Do NOT bring up Eldar.
7. While it’s not reflected here, the FAQ going to GW will reflect that the Cobra “Widowmakers†refit can only be taken by Imperial Navy squadrons (not pirates, renegades, etc.), ONLY Cobras can take the refit, ALL Cobras in a squadron must take the refit if taken, and more than half the ships in the squadron must be Cobras. This is how the refit should ALWAYS have been used. This provides for clever variations if desired, and it prevents the stupidity of one Widowmaker Cobra leading a flotilla of five Vipers (or Swords wanting a lock-on bonus, for that matter).
Last but not least, I’m NOT saying the Jovian isn’t dead. If we need to kill it, we will. I just want the debate to center around how this ship (or any of the other rules) breaks the fleet, not some tangential argument about “fluff says it’s impossible†or something similar. Let me repeat- I am NOT engaging in a fluff argument!
Okay, well that’s it for now. I’m going to bed. Let the debate commence!
