Hey Nate. I don't know if you saw this, but I was trying to keep track of everyones opinion on what they wanted to see in this list.
Vote Count.... (basically) Black means yes, orange means apathetic/other option, red means no. Tried to keep as good of track as I could, sorry if I screwed something up. Teal means 'with vengeance'.
Delete FDTs [Vaaish, Plaxor, Sigoroth, RCgothic valhallan
Vanquisher 300 (or less) pts [RCgothic, Plaxor, Sigoroth, Eldanesh
Victory 330 pts: [RCgothic, Plaxor, Vaaish, Eldanesh Valhallan
Delete Jovian: [Admiral D, Horizon, Valhallan, Zelnik, lastspartacus, Plaxor, Sigoroth, BaronI]
Add Dominion: [Plaxor, Horizon, Valhallan, RCgothic, Sigoroth, Zelnik]
Vanquisher 20cm speed: [Valhallan, Plaxor, RCgothic]
+1 Turrets (possible increased cost): [Sigoroth, Plaxor, Rcgothic, Valhallan, Zelnik]
Delete Victory: [Plaxor, Zelnik]
Vanquisher somewhere else: [Zelnik... Plaxor]
Delete Mercury: [Zelnik,
Hi everyone! There’s a LOT to respond to here so I will make my first fast-pass post in reply to this one. Everyone else does deserve replies as well, but some of these posts are actually conflicting (some say keep a ship because it’s great, others say get rid of it). That doesn’t make the arguments bad, but I will see how the discussion plays out and make adjustments accordingly. PS: “with a vengeance†means nothing to me. You either like it or you don’t. If your argument is rational, let’s talk about it.
- FDT’s seem to be causing the most hate so they are gone. They are NOT being replaced with a different odd, used-nowhere-else mechanic such as turrets that hit on 3+. However, something far simpler is acceptable, such as all Bakka ships (incl escorts) can buy +1 turret for +10 points. Thoughts?
- The 1.1 Bakka list (not yet posted) already has the Vanquisher for 300 points. This is as low as its going so arguments to drop the price further are moot. No, it’s not getting a speed boost.
- As I demonstrated using the Smotherman Rules everyone is so fond of, the Victory for its firepower is about equivalent to a Retribution, with a stronger prow compensated by weaker dorsals. Making this ship cheaper than a Retribution guarantees the Ret will never be used. As was pointed out recently, the Victory has several advantages over the Apocalypse, which is only 10 points cheaper. Speaking of which, I know everyone wants this ship to be 15cm because they want the Nova Cannon to be used as a stand-off weapon, but 20cm isn’t a handicap when used on cruisers. Again, the intent is to make this ship a Ret analogue. If the ship is still too confused or misguided for your tastes, don’t use it.
- There seems to be some massive, vitriolic, almost prepubescent hate for the Jovian. Only one ship can ever be used in an entire fleet, it can only be used by Bakka, and yet people still absolutely HATE it. Okay, it’s gone, but what gives? Really?
- The Dominion- has anybody actually playtested this against Eldar? I have- I own one but NEVER thought of making this official! It’s advertised as a pirate hunter, but its 260 points worth of strawberry jam against Eldar. We can put this in the Jovian’s place since so many people want it, but in my opinion it really is rubbish. By the way, strawberry jam goes great in ham sandwiches (sorry, couldn’t help it
)
- Allowing all Bakka ships to have Nova Cannons is insane. Period. It’s bad enough the fleet list already makes them pretty common. Were it up to me, Dominators would NOT be part of the fleet list, but only an idiot would suggest that Dominators (which originate from relatively nearby Kar Durniash) would not be a primary ship in a Bakka fleet list when the farther-away Gothic fleet list counts them as primary ships.
- I don't mind giving the Mercury a torps option, but I will have to pass this by Bob. On that note, the Mercury is like the Overlord in that it is not an ideal gunship BC. Imperials don’t get an ideal gunship BC. Play Chaos if that’s what you want. Period.
- Since this fleet is supposed to be AC-light, Defiants are absolutely, positively OUT. I know some people reading this have either min-maxed fleets at least once or played against people who have. Admiral Rath, three Defiants and an Emperor is NOT what I call a Bakka fleet. Period.
- Endeavor and variants are NOT getting 90deg turns AND 6+ armor. One OR the other. Argument ends.
- This is not a “Segmentum†fleet list, it is a Bakka Sector fleet list just like the Gothic Sector or Armageddon Sector fleet lists. It just so happens that Bakka is the Segmentum Fortress for Segmentum Tempestus. I imagine that as Voss is pretty close to Armageddon but rather far from Terra (not to mention Terra’s immediate proximity to Mars), a Battlefleet Solar fleet list has only a passing resemblance to that of Battlefleet Armageddon, though both are within Segmentum Solar. This is only an observation and not anything that actually needs to be disputed or debated over.
- Due to the proximity to the Bakka Forge World, it has been suggested that the fleet gets one Adeptus Mechanicus ship as part of the primary fleet list (the rest still count as reserves). Thoughts?
- It has been suggested that the fleet gets one Space Marine strike cruiser as part of the primary fleet list due to its strong affinity toward Maccrage and the Ultramarines (the rest still count as reserves). Thoughts?
- I do NOT believe battleships should be 1:2, as battleships are still rare and precious assets throughout the Imperium. However, 1:1 for battlecruisers isn’t entirely unacceptable, again thanks to Bakka’s proximity. Thoughts?
- The Mars BC will NOT be deleted for exactly the same reason why the Defiant SHOULD be so. AC are supposed to be rare for this fleet, NOT absent. The Mars is the most expensive 4LB carrier in the whole game if you don’t count the one-off Ork battleships. Nobody will be using these to fluff out a fleet. Even if battlecruisers are made 1:1, the best cruiser ratio you can get is 4 launch bays per 360 points, assuming a fleet made up entirely of Dominion BC’s and Siluria CL’s.
- For reasons not worth ruminating over here, we will NOT be adding anything from Forgeworld’s Badab war fleet list to this project unless Bob or Ray specifically want to address the issue, nor will we as HA’s be addressing anything published in IA10. As far as we are concerned, it’s all official as-is if GW says it is. If Forgeworld actually comes out with any models to support these new rules, I will be quite happy and might even buy some.