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Author Topic: Battlefleet Urdesh idea  (Read 8139 times)

Offline RCgothic

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Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« on: January 28, 2011, 08:18:48 PM »
This is my idea for the battlefleet of the Urdesh subsector. Urdesh is a forge world in Segmentum Pacificus.

My thinking went along three lines: Torpedo Bombers are awesome, and it should be easier to use more of them, secondly: It would be cool if big ships could squadron with smaller ships as a proper escort, and thirdly: there isn't really a true battlecruiser in BFG (that is to say, battleship level firepower, but less able to take a hit). So without further ado:


Battlefleet Urdesh

BBs:
Retribution class battleship         355pts   (linebreaker)
Oberon class battleship              355pts   (stand off/carrier)
Repulse class Heavy Battlecruiser 335pts   (stand off/linebreaker/carrier)
Vanquisher class Battleship         290pts   (cheap linebreaker)

Battlecruisers:
Mars class battlecruiser             270pts   (Stand Off/Carrier/Artillery)
Audacious class battlecruiser      235pts   (Linebreaker/Stand Off/Light Carrier)
Attacker class battlecruiser        225pts   (Linebreaker/Light Carrier)

Cruisers:
Dictator class cruiser                 220pts   (Carrier/Linebreaker)
Lunar class cruiser                    180pts   (Linebreaker)
Tyrant class cruiser                  180pts   (Stand off/Linebreaker)

Light Cruisers:
Endeavour class light cruiser                 120pts   (Light Cruiser of the Line)
Defiant class light cruiser                      110pts   (Light Carrier of the Line)
Dauntless class light cruiser (torp only)   110pts   (Torpedo Patrol Cruiser)      

Escorts:
Sword class Frigate                   35pts   (Gunship)
Falchion class Frigate                35pts   (Dispersive torp gunship)
Viper class missile destroyer       35pts   (Missile destroyer)
Cobra class Destroyer               30pts   (Light Missile Destroyer)
Iconoclast class Destroyer         25pts   (Gunboat)

Special Rules:

Ordnance:
All carriers used in a battlefleet Urdeshi list additionally have torpedo bombers, which are included in their cost. Reserve vessels may take torpedo  bombers at +5pts per 2pts of launch bay capacity. Urdeshi carriers used in other lists lose their torpedo bombers and do NOT get a discount for the loss.

Squadrons:
Urdeshi vessels make extensive use of squadrons, which differ in the following respects:
•   A squadron may have any composition, and may contain Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Light Cruisers and/or escorts.
•   The maximum number of vessels in a squadron are 4 capital ships or 6 vessels total, and the minimum number of escorts in a squadron (if any are taken) is 2.  
•   Every capital ship larger than a Light Cruiser MUST be squadroned with at least one smaller capital ship OR at least 2 escorts, but the composition is otherwise unrestricted.
•   Each ship within the squadron has its own leadership (the escorts within a squadron share a leadership value), but the squadron uses the leadership of the largest ship until it is destroyed, then the next largest ship, etc.
•   For the purposes of incoming fire, the squadron is targeted as though it is the closest ship within range and fire arc. Damage is distributed to the closest ship within range and fire arc that it can affect.

Examples:
•   Repulse with Audacious with Dauntless is a legal squadron, as is Lunar with 2 Swords, but Mars with Dictator is not (lacks a cap ship or 2 escorts smaller than a dictator).
•   A Lunar and 2 Swords take fire. The Lunar is closest and closing, resulting in 7 WB dice and 2 Lance Dice. The squadron braces, and before saves the results are are WB(6,6,5,5,5,3,2) and L(6,5). The Lunar takes 4 hits against its 6+ prow (2 from WBs, 2 from lances), whilst the next closest sword takes three hits from the 5s that beat its 5+ armour but not the Lunar’s 6+. After brace saves, the Lunar has saved some of its hits, but the Sword has failed all of its saves and is destroyed – the third hit would carry over onto the second sword, but in this case it is out of range/fire arc and so is unaffected.

Example 1500pt List:

Squadron 1: Repulse class BCH & Dauntless LC + Admiral    (495pts)
Squadron 2: Lunar + 2 Cobras                                       (240pts)
Squadron3: Attacker + Defiant + 2 Iconoclasts                 (385pts)
Squadron4: Endeavour + 2 Iconoclasts                            (170pts)
Squadron 5: 6 Vipers                                                   (210pts)
 

Repulse class Heavy Battlecruiser
Battleship10 Shield3 Speed 25 Turns45 Armour 6+/5+/4+ Turrets 3
Dorsal lance   S2   R60    F/L/R
P/SB WBs      FP12   R60    L/R
P/SB LBs      S2   F/B/TBs   -
Prow Torpedoes   S9   30cm   F

Audacious class Battlecruiser
Cruiser8 Shield2 Speed 20 Turns45 Armour 6+/5+ Turrets2
Dorsal LB      S2   F/B/TBs   -
P/SB WBs      FP10   R60   L/R
Prow Torps   S6   30cm   F

Attacker class Battlecruiser
Cruiser8 Shield2 Speed 20 Turns45 Armour 6+/5+ Turrets2
Dorsal LB      S2   F/B/TBs   -
P/SB WBs      FP6   R45   L/R
P/SB Lances   S2   R45   L/R
Prow Torps   S6   30cm   F
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 08:50:30 AM by RCgothic »

Offline Valhallan

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2011, 11:39:42 PM »
convince plax to throw your (ours in my mind) squad ideas into his rule re-write.

on another note. audacious ~ overlord. don't like the split hard-points (as the admiral would say) on repulse and attacker...

drop the icono. why no endurance? want a real battlecruiser? the Revelation. as 'geddon is to lunar, the Rev is to the gothic. can't say 6 lances isn't 'ard enough - thats nearly apoc level of umph.


rad idea. this is exactly what we should be doing as a community.


Offline Plaxor

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2011, 01:45:02 AM »
Apparently it's RCs job to convince me?

Offline RCgothic

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2011, 07:03:11 AM »
Thanks for the feedback!

The fleet is deliberately Lance Poor - this is why not Endurance/Gothic/Revelation/Lance Dauntless. Only the Retribution can focus more than 2 per side. To compensate, you get lots of torpedoes in the form of torpedo bombers - The Audacious/Attacker are Tyrant/Lunar battlecruisers with Launchbays instead of lances.


The Repulse and Squadron rules are what I'd most like feedback on. How would people feel about a 25cm 10hit 3 shield 3 turret battleship with otherwise comparable levels of firepower to true battleships? I was seriously considering giving it 4+ rear armour in addition, or some sort of critical hit rule.

As for the squadron rules, I think I'd revert them to using the rules in the big book - a lone cruiser may be squadroned with an escort squadron, so long as the total number of models in the squadron is not above 4or6/whichever. Capital ships other than those joining escorts must be squadroned with at least one other capital ship.

Offline Valhallan

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2011, 09:34:26 PM »
max any squadron with cap ships to 4. good plan. fits my 1 CR/3 ES idea posted in flawed ships.

the repulse would be the first (and only) ever CG with 25cm move. drop it to 20cm. i'd also drop its weapons to 45cm.... otherwise is just a cheaper/lighter unfixed retrobution. conflicted over prow armor w/ torps but 60cm weapons.

still think it would look weird modeling a ship with WB, then 1/2 lances, 1/2 LB modules.... not to mention it doesn't work for my magnets :(

Offline RCgothic

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 10:19:17 PM »
It's not supposed to be a grand cruiser though. It's supposed to be a battleship that sacrifices its protection in exchange for speed - this is the true principle of the battlecruiser: Outrun or outgun.

Those that can catch it will wish they hadn't, whilst nothing that seriously threatens it can keep up.

In game terms it has several uses: It can use its speed and long range to scout around if opposition is too heavy for its mere 3 shields, or it can linebreak, using 6+ armour and forward torps if sticking with the line of battle is a better idea. My only concern is that two hitpoints and 1 shield isn't ENOUGH of a sacrifice for speed. Perhaps 2 shields? I also mentioned 4+ rear armour earlier, and perhaps a +1 to all critical hit rolls.

What do you mean, split lances/launch bays? On each side the Repulse has two WB hardpoints and 1 LB hardpoint - three hardpoints total. Works perfectly for magnets. It's based off the Retribution Model, not the Grand Cruisers.

As for the Attacker/Audacious, yes, those will require a bit of converting of their dorsal spine, but it shouldn't be too hard to make it look like a cruiser hull has dorsal hangar openings.

Offline RCgothic

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2011, 10:29:51 PM »
Repulse Class Heavy Battlecruiser: 335pts

Battleship/12 Shields2 Speed25cm Turns 45' Armour 6+/5+ Turrets 2

Prow Torps S9 30cm F
P/SB WBs FP12 60cm R/L
P/SB LBs S2 Fighters/Bombers -
Dorsal Lances S2 60cm F/L/R

Special Rules:
May not CTNH. As a battlecruiser, the Repulse sacrifices protection for speed - it suffers critical hits on a 5+ instead of 6+. In addition, rolls on the critical hits chart gain a +1 modifier.

Perhaps that captures the feel better. It's still as bulky and well armed as a battleship, but protective systems have been scrimped on to give it its speed: Only 2 shields and 2 turrets, plus poor damage containment.

Offline RCgothic

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 01:06:20 PM »
Fluff time!



Battlefleet Urdesh has at its heart the forge world of Urdesh. Urdesh provided the bulk of the munitions required for the Sabbat Worlds Crusade to retake the Sabbat Worlds from Chaos. Briefly lost to Chaos itself, the forge world was swiftly retaken and continued supplying a steady stream of munitions to the Crusade effort.

Fed by this steady stream of munitions, Battlefleet Urdesh adapted to make heavy use of torpedos - ships were refit to carry torpedo systems, and launch bays to service torpedo bombers.

These tactics proved especially lethal at the battle of Aster's Reach, where the chaos grand cruiser Archon's Fist was pursued by the Dauntless class cruisers Sabbat's Fury and Blue Thunder for ten hours through the gas clouds, and eventually destroyed by repeated torpedo bombardment.

In another incident, the Chaos Battleship Crooked Rapier was lost in orbit of Denit VII after a surprise attack by torpedo bombers from the Dictator class cruiser Silver Glint and its Firedagger class escorts. The Crooked Rapier suffered crippling damage to its engine room and, unable to maintain orbit, it burned up in the swirling atmosphere of the gas giant.

The Chaos forces in the sector were quick to make use of their own advantages - Chaos ships would use their speed to appear seemingly out of nowhere, destroy lone capital ships, and vanish back into the void. Not even escorted cruisers were safe - the Tyrant class cruiser Dorn's Solace was lost during convoy duty when its squadron of Viper class escorts were drawn off by cunning Chaos tactics - a pair of Chaos frigates appeared as though to attack the convoy, and quickly retreated when the defenders made themselves known. Though the Viper squadron pursued and successfully destroyed the intruders, when they returned, Dorn's Solace and the convoy were no more than an expanding cloud of flaming debris, and an unidentified Carnage class cruiser slinking away.

To compound the problem, in spite of Imperial numerical superiority, Chaos intelligence always seemed to be two steps ahead of the Imperials, and for a time it seemed that any capital in the entire fleet left alone for more than a few hours would be ambushed and destroyed. Fleet HQ suspected a spy, but the incidents continued even after the entire fleet operations staff were executed and replaced, and no spy was ever found.

With no end to the incidents in sight, it was decreed no capital ship should ever be without an escort. Even after the Crusade, this decree was never repealed. Fleet HQ also petitioned the Forge World of Urdesh to refit more of their ships to battlecruiser status - it was hoped that if more ships that were deadlier than they looked, more raids could be foiled.

These tactics worked, although at cost - with the necessity of close escort, the Imperial fleet could be in fewer places at once, and raids against civilian targets intensified. Nevertheless, with Imperial losses were reduced, and the Crusade went on to acheive ultimate victory.

In the aftermath of the Crusade the Chaos fleet was scattered. Nevertheless, the raids continued, and it was found that Imperial vessels - even the newly refit battlecruisers - just did not have the speed required to bring the elusive Chaos forces to battle. Those lighter vessels that could catch the Chaos ships inevitably found themselves horribly outgunned. What was needed was a new type of vessel, one that could keep pace with the chaos vessels and obliterate them in a fight, and thus and that could operate free from the neccessity of an escort. Fleet HQ once more pettitioned the tech priests of Urdesh for help.

Thus was the Repulse Class Heavy Battlecruiser born. The first of the class, named Repulse after its intended function on the Chaos raiders, was converted from one of the fleet's successful Retribution class battleships - Bulkheads and shield generators were stripped out to make way for enlarged engine spaces, whilst heavy armoured turrets were stripped out to lighten the ship, reducing its dorsal lance battery to 2 and leaving the ship worryingly undefended against ordnance. It was also decided to strip out 1/3 of the ship's macrocannon batteries, replacing their heavy, armoured casemates and internal macrocannon magazines and replace them with launch bays - which were significantly lighter. Torpedoes for the Torpedo Bombers, though smaller than the vessel's main armament, were stored in the forward torpedo magazine, and a rail system was installed for delivery.

The class performed excellently in service and Fleet HQ soon ordered three more.

In M41.860 Commodore Ryken, captain of the Repulse suffered political embarrassment when, after attempting to engage the Chaos battleship Bone Render, Repulse had to spend six months in dock undergoing repairs. Though excellent against cruisers, the heavy battlecruiser concept couldn't stand up to a real battleship. Commodore Ryken swore both revenge, and to never make the same mistake again. Fourteen years later, Repulse once more found herself confronted with Bone Render. Rather than engage, Repulse shadowed the Chaos battleship for three weeks and even through six warp transitions until a task force could be sent to assist and foul vessel was finally brought to justice.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 04:34:23 PM by RCgothic »

Offline Plaxor

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 01:16:12 PM »
My God RC.

Offline RCgothic

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 02:37:23 PM »
Wall of text? Awful?

Anyway, list revision v1.2:


So, list revision v1.2:

Battlefleet Urdesh:

Battleships:
Retribution Class Battleship BB 355pts
Oberon Class Battleship BBV 345pts
Vanquisher Class Battleship BB 290pts
Repulse Class Heavy Battlecruiser BCHV 335pts

Battlecruisers:
Mars Class Battlecruiser BCV 270pts
Audacious Class Battlecruiser BCVL 245pts
Attacker Class Battlecruiser BCVL 235pts

Cruisers:
Dictator Class Cruiser CAV 220pts
Tyrant Class Cruiser CA 180pts
Lunar Class Cruiser CA 180pts
Endeavour Class Light Cruiser CL 120pts
Defiant Class Light Cruiser CVL 105pts
Dauntless Class Light Cruiser (Torp Only) CL 110pts

Escorts:
Cyclone Class Heavy Frigate FFH 50pts
Sword class Frigate FF 35pts  
Falchion class Frigate FF 35pts  
Viper class missile destroyer DDG 35pts  
Cobra class Destroyer DD 30pts  
Iconoclast class Destroyer DD 25pts  

Fleet Composition:
You may take 1 Battleship for every 3 Cruisers/Battlecruisers in the list. You may take 1 Battlecruiser for every other cruiser in the list. All capital ships, with the exception of Repulse class battlecruisers, MUST be part of a squadron. A single capital ship may join a squadron of escorts, so long as the total number of ships is no greater than 4 - in this case the squadron uses the capital ship's leadership until it is destroyed, even if the escorts' leadership is higher. Squadrons must be picked before leadership is rolled.

Ordnance:
All ships with launch bays additionally carry Torpedo Bombers. This is included in their price. Ships from Battlefleet Urdesh used as reserves in another fleet list lose their torpedo bombers, and they get no discount for this. Repulse and Oberon class ships may take assault boats for +5pts.

Ship Database:

Repulse Class Heavy Battlecruiser
Battleship12 Shields2 Speed25 Turns45 Armour6+/5+ Turrets2
Prow Torpedos S9 30cm F
Port Weapons Batteries FP12 R60cm R
Port Launch Bays Fighters/Bombers All Round
Starboard Weapons Batteries FP12 R60cm L
Starboard Launch Bays Fighters/Bombers All Round
Dorsal Lances S2 R60cm F/L/R

Special Rules:
May not CTNH. Gains +1D6 on AAF. Suffers Critical Hits on a D6 Roll of 5+. All rolls on the critical hit chart gain a +1 Modifier.

Audacious Class Battlecruiser
Cruiser8 Shields2 Speed20 Turns45 Armour6+/5+ Turrets2
Prow Torpedoes S6 30cm F
Port Weapons Battery FP12 R60cm R
Starboard Weapons Battery FP12 R60cm L
Dorsal Launch Bay Fighters/Bombers All Round

Attacker Class Battlecruiser
Cruiser8 Shields2 Speed20 Turns45 Armour6+/5+ Turrets2
Prow Torpedoes S6 30cm F
Port Weapons Battery FP6 R45cm R
Port Lance Battery S2 R45cm R
Starboard Weapons Battery FP6 R45cm L
Starboard Lance Battery S2 R45cm L
Dorsal Launch Bay Fighters/Bombers All Round

Cyclone Class Heavy Frigate
Escort2 Shields1 Speed25 Turns90 Armour5+ Turrets2
Prow Torpedoes S2 30cm F
Dorsal Weapons Battery FP4 30cm F/L/R
Port Weapons Battery FP2 30cm R
Starboard Weapons Battery FP2 30cm L

Optional:
A Cyclone class Heavy Frigate may replace its prow torpedo launcher with a S1 Launch Bay for +5pts.



New Escort! What does everyone think?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 04:38:56 PM by RCgothic »

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 02:55:05 PM »
Awful, and... Invincible class, anyone?
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Offline RCgothic

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 03:07:42 PM »
And put in a more constructive manner?

I prefer the Repulse class as I've written it to the Invinvible Class. For one, I just prefer the weapons loadout. 8 hits on a battleship hull is too few, and I prefer the special rules the way I've written them also.

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 04:07:42 PM »
And put in a more constructive manner?

I prefer the Repulse class as I've written it to the Invinvible Class. For one, I just prefer the weapons loadout. 8 hits on a battleship hull is too few, and I prefer the special rules the way I've written them also.


Ok, first, to avoid confusion, I'd rename the firedagger, as it doesn't really resemble the existing class.

Second:Fluff should never be about how awesome your ship is unless the ship is a sentient character.  Divine Right is awesome because Ravensburg Is aboard, not that it isn't a cool ship, but the galaxy apparently overfloweth with Emperor class battleships.  It's characters that make fluff interesting.  An unnamed arrogant captain feels like just another faceless mook, like the Goblin chieftain you kill as a 1st level fighter.  Who was he?  No one knows or cares. 
non nobis domine non nobis sed nomine tua da na glorium

Offline RCgothic

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2011, 04:10:40 PM »
Fair enough. If the fluff's rubbish, I'll bin it. It did kind of grow out of all proportion anyway. Wasn't aware that there was a firedagger class, will rename it.

Anything else?

Offline Plaxor

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Re: Battlefleet Urdesh idea
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 04:24:36 PM »
Rename it the Cyclone, or Ardent, or something else...