Flawed Faq/Ruleset

[Plaxor]

So Nate was vaguely talking about some ideas for Boarding torpedoes that never happened.

Boarding torpedoes are notoriously bad. They cost more points and offer no advantage, here is a comparison:

Normal Torpedoes:
Move 30, roll to hit against armor, cause 1 hit and can cause a critical effect

Boarding Torpedoes:
Move 20 (in orks), 15 (in nids), 30 (in sm), roll to hit against armor, and cause a hit and run. They are 5 points more expensive in orks. They can turn, but only in their second move and beyond.


Much much worse...

However I feel that these should be changed to sort of what nate was getting at:

Move 20 (in all races except nids who will still have 15), roll to hit against armor and will cause 1 hit (that can't cause criticals) as well as a H&R attack. Can turn in their second move and beyond.



As these are more expensive, and slower (which matters a lot for shotgun), they basically trade off the chance for a better critical with an auto H&R, and they trade speed for turns in second and subsequent turns. Plus they are more expensive (at least in orks)

I think that this set-up would make them a viable upgrade.

[Sigoroth]

I disagree entirely. Boarding torps should not be able to do the same damage as high yield warheads. I would just say give them +1 to hit to represent their ability to guide to weak points and cut their way in. Against high armour targets this bonus as well as their ability to turn should be sufficient.

[Plaxor]

Yeah, actually you are right.... hmmm... I honestly don't think they would be too bad if they didn't have to roll against armor. Even then I probably would never use them.

[Sigoroth]

Yeah, actually you are right.... hmmm... I honestly don't think they would be too bad if they didn't have to roll against armor. Even then I probably would never use them.

And if they didn't roll against armour then they'd be a-boats. That would allow a Despoiler, for example to send out a wave of 8 bombers and another of 8 a-boats, against which turrets can only shoot at one. If they just get a +1 to hit then against a 5+ armour ship then that means they effectively halve their strength and get that many a-boat attacks. So 6 boarding torps would give 3 H&R attacks, 6 normal torps would give 2 hit points damage. The former can turn.

For the record, I'm against the new H&R rules against escorts. Escorts have already been improved against ordnance with massed turrets, they've been improved against H&R attacks by allowing BFI and they've been improved in general by the alteration to the VP rules. If people need further incentive to take them it should not be in the form of making them a safer bet (that's what taking cruisers is for), but should rather be because they're more attractive. This can be in the form of a fleet role, such as limiting the massed turrets rules to escorts only and changing the bomber attack run rules so that escorts become more necessary to protect the larger ships. It could also be in the form of just being worth their damn points. An across the board reduction in cost of 5 pts, 10 pts, or some other change, to those escorts that are just never used (as has been discussed in most cases).

With the scrapping of this bogus rule, then at least boarding torps would retain their lethality against escorts, while giving an alternative against cap ships (disable rather than damage).

[lastspartacus]

whats the wording exactly on the rule?  i was unaware it effected torp bombers.

what was the reaction on that suggestion that boarding torps do damage+HnR or at least potential damage?

[Plaxor]

But massing turrets always poses the disadvantage of reducing your shields.... and even the really good escorts weren't taken that often.
Like the sword, which was in ~30% of lists.

ABs now have about the same chance of killing an escort as a bomber (vs. IN escorts) which seems fine. I think the idea was to make ordinance worse, and escorts better.


Although you do bring up a point about them being more role-filling. I think it would be interesting to give escorts some kind of 'overwatch' ability where they forfeited their shooting phase to fire at any ordinance that came in range with their wbs.

[Plaxor]

So working through the RT/Xenos Minoris document, and came across some thoughts for allies.

Horizon said that the Dominator didn't make the Gothic sector list special enough, as reserves would allow the Bastion fleets to take 2 of them in a normal game.

The reserve rules severely damage the character of the fleet lists, and allow very weird things to happen, such as corsair eldar to be allowed in an IN fleet.

So my recommendation is that unless specifically denoted in the fleet list, I.E. Rogue Traders allying into whoever, or Tau allies, Bastion fleet reserves etc. Allies and reserves are not allowed unless agreed upon by your opponent.

This should help with internal balance, as BFG with those rules becomes somewhat of a take whatever you want game, save for the more restricted ships.

[Sigoroth]

But massing turrets always poses the disadvantage of reducing your shields.... and even the really good escorts weren't taken that often.
Like the sword, which was in ~30% of lists.

ABs now have about the same chance of killing an escort as a bomber (vs. IN escorts) which seems fine. I think the idea was to make ordinance worse, and escorts better.


Although you do bring up a point about them being more role-filling. I think it would be interesting to give escorts some kind of 'overwatch' ability where they forfeited their shooting phase to fire at any ordinance that came in range with their wbs.

To be honest I don't like overwatch in any of the GW games. It's a turn based system. Everything should be able to fit properly into those turns so that such mechanic-breaking rules aren't necessary. Also, a-boats should not be reduced in effectiveness to that of a bomber against escorts. They aren't increased to bomber rating against non-escorts. Escorts are fragile. They're supposed to be fragile. The reason you take them is because they're cheap, fast and can focus a lot of firepower. If they tweak the massed turret rules to be escort-only and make BBs more susceptible to bombers (as they should be) then there will be another incentive to taking escorts (AC protection). Another way to go would be to just make them more worthwhile. Decrease their costs. By either 5 pts (good escorts) or 10 pts (crap ones). So a Sword would go from 35 down to 30 pts. A Firestorm would go from 40 pts to 30 pts. Etc.