Sigoroth
1. Math. see my response to RCG regarding how averages and probability analysis may differ. i find it amusing that in refuting claims to authority you then proceed to give your credentials. i understand very well the differences between the two mathematical analysis.
lets try this again.
there is a probability of 0.4444% of a lunar killing any swords. i roll the dice and i kill 2 swords. the actualities is 2 swords killed. yet the probability for the next time the lunar shoots and not killing any swords remain 0.4444%.
i shoot again and i kill no swords. the actuality is 0 swords killed this round but in total i killed 2 swords with two attempts for an average of 1 kill per attempt/event.
i shoot a third time and again the probability of 0.4444% of not killing a sword. sure enough i miss again and do not kill any sword so now my average kill per event is 0.6666. the average has changed, the probability has not. the more times i shoot, the close i get to the true average. so sample size certainly matters. as a gamer probability matters. as a game designer and considering balance, i think averages matter as well and for me, should be of greater significance from the designer's perspective.
2. opinion. please also read my response to RCG. again, i have never claim your opinion is worthless. please read my post #91 again. it is you who have made that claim regarding mine as read in post 93. you stated
"No, this is just not the case. You could say that, in your opinion, Imperial ships should be faster and more agile than Eldar ships. You'd be wrong, but it's "your opinion" and "subjective" so no one can gainsay you, right? Wrong. You can hold whatever opinion you like, but it doesn't make your opinion equally valuable. And if we are able to reject extreme views, such as the fast-Imperial example I just used, then there must be a set of criterion by which opinions can be judged and valued. Therefore not subjective."
(how is this not an argument of authority? or has it been modified to be an argument of popularity (as in not extreme is popular therefore the authority reference))
yet it is you that claim my opinion is worthless (post 119) because i agree. seems to me that you are the one that rejects differences in opinion much more so than i. that because i happen to agree with MSM my opinion is worthless. quite amusing your reasoning and argument constructions.
your suggestions that i agree with MSM just because everyone else does too is without merit. There is no evidence to suggest this and thus another strawman argument on your part.
this thread, as you suggested, is "should it be another way" regarding MSM. I argued that MSM is characterful but could be better with minor tweaks (perhaps changing holofield, perhaps limiting turns) without complete abandonment of the MSM mechanic. how is this any way similar to the words you try to put in my mouth of ""I agree with the current method because that's how it is" ?" you fixate on my overall agreement with MSM and cannot seem to get beyond that at all.
i posited that you are too wedded to your own bias because you have demonstrated it again and again regarding MSM, which is the core topic of conversation. let me summarize it for you:
a) sigoroth argues MSM is fatally flawed
b) fracas opined that MSM is not fatally flawed
c) therefore fracas' opinion of MSM is fatally flawed.
yup. that about sums it up. this is the bias i referred to. i did not and do not postulate any other bias on your part beyond this.
3. i think you should get beyond strawman arguments while at the same time maintain internal consistency with your own arguments. btw, a ~Argument of authority is the same as an Argument of authority in its fallacy of construction.
4. abstraction
IN vs eldar
MS, msm, MS, msm, MS, msm
IN one move between being shot at; eldar two moves between being shot at.
now i have not looked at MMS but using your analytical process
MS, mms, MS, mms, MS, mms
IN one move between being shot at; eldar two moves between being shot at. looks same but there is a difference in that the mms make eldar faster and better able to position themselves for the shot with second move, whereas msm allow the eldar the ability with the second move to avoid being shot at after taking the shot.
seems to me all ship commanders want to maximize their shooting and minimized themselves as targets. thus again seems to me MSM should be available to all fleets as being more realistic representation of tactical considerations of all commanders. in addition, given time space consideration and everything moving, where you are when you shoot me should not be the same as where you are when i shoot you. you can argue that since both parties have minimum movement this is already the case but this is only incompletely so with MS compared to MSM. that by the time you maneuver for the shot the target may have already moved out of your guns, thus MSM incorporates some of this time lag effect better than MS.