Eldar MMS v2.0

[horizon]

Epic:A has no shields on Eldar.

With the absorbing shield tech...hmmm... I mean my opponents are not so adaptive on it as they still think that Eldar are very resilient with the v1.9 rules.
Also: when all shields are downed, the roll is still made?

Look, on escorts and cruisers they have the same number of shields as a regular IN class vessel.

Then we add holofield rules:
right shift vs batteries not under 15cm.
saving throw vs lances : 5+ above 30cm, 6+ 16-30cm, none under 15cm.

With absorbing shields you add another layer to protection.

So we then would have two layerers above a standard vessel. Your example is a Battleship which indeed has one shield less. But cruisers, escorts, not.

Yes, overwhelming firepower is needed in this case, thus large squadrons. But, then it comes, large squadrons have a problem in doing adhoc movement to interecept the fast Eldar. Also, I am no such fan of large squadrons.

In smaller battles it will be a problem to as you do not have enough to squadron.

To keep it clear & balanced it is either absorbing or holofield. Not both.

[lastspartacus]

Eldar should definitly be more fragile than imperial stuff, etc.

As to 'looking down', I take that to mean they see the concept of such shielding to be primitive.  Why take a hit if you can dodge it, in other words.

If anything, I would be ok with all Eldar vessels having some sort of shielding from phenomena or blast markers, even if it wasnt strong enough to count as a proper shield.  More a passive thing.

[horizon]

That can be accounted for having holofields saving vs such phenomena. Or holofields advanced enough to negate such things.

[Sigoroth]

As a raiding fleet Eldar should be able to take incidental fire. A single lance or single WB dice should be completely unable to hurt them (just like with IN, etc). They should only really suffer to focused fire, being unable to withstand a battle of attrition.

Eldar look down on Imperial shield tech because it's inferior to their own, crude and inelegant.

As for how it could work, escorts 1 shield & 6+ regen (bare bones stuff), cruisers 1 shield, 4+ regen and BBs 2 shields @ 4+ regen. If shield regenerates, remove a BM in contact. Test to regenerate after each successive ship/squadron has completed its fire at the ship. So you could have both shields of a BB fail to regen after a salvo, take some more incoming fire (shields down) and then regen afterwards.

This gives Eldar shields (necessary for space and the best type of defence in the game), makes them immune to incidental (1 shot) fire, makes them weak to massive focused fire and represents both their superior technology and their disdain for merely throwing more shields on (quality over quantity).

Specific values could be tweaked.

[lastspartacus]

Thats interesting, at least.

[horizon]

Sig,
interesting.

Vs lances, lets say above 30cm that means Eldar do:

holo save 4+
if failed blastmarker is placed.
regeneration/hull/shield 4+ blastmarker is removed.

So vs Eldar Cruiser I would need:
a 4+ to hit (0,5)
a 4+ holo (0,5 ---> 0,25)
a 4+ regen (0,25 ---> 0,125)

So the opponent with 1 lance has 12,5 % chance to see a blastmarker placed.

So regeneration always applies, after every shooting issue. 2 shields means 2 dice thrown if markers are placed?

In terms of balance I do not see it as overpowered. On the contrary. This rule might ask for a refined approach to the holofield to have less fiddlyness with dice rolling, especially vs lances. Batteries right shift can stay as is.

1 shield is easy to overwhelm on capital ships...

[lastspartacus]

For the very reason of quality over quantity, I vote simply to have a graduating scale from escorts to battleships, keeping the single shield.

Having it regen everytime you are shot at though feels wrong though, as in some cases it will actually punish the opponent for shooting with more than one thing, and enemy fire also should have nothing to do with if the shield regenerates or not.  So I advise handling it on a ship/squadron basis until the shield fails to regen.

say 6+ for escorts, 6+ or 5+ for light cruisers, 5+ for cruisers, 4+ for grand cruisers, and 3+ for battleships, single shield.

[Sigoroth]

Yep, you got it Horizon. Means to do anything much they need to put some guns into it.

LS, I don't mind scaling quality, but I would only implement 1 of your 2 suggestions, either/or. This is because with a 4+ save (say) on my grand cruiser (other races have 3 shields, 2 more hits and generally cost less) every second turn I'd have 1 shield. Half of the remaining turns (every 4th turn) I'd have 2 shields. Then 3, blah, blah.

Let's illustrate: 1st turn, enemy shoots 1 salvo at my 1 shield ship. Damage is taken, shield absorbs 1 hit, BM is place, brace saves made, crits for hull damage rolled, all as per normal. Now I get to do my 4+ regen; fails. Only had 1 shield this turn, subsequent fire resolved as normal.

2nd turn rocks around, same thing, but this time after the shooting resolves I regenerate (yay!). Now, if he fires again then I'll have gained a 2nd shield this time (possibly 3 if it regenerates and he fires again). However, he may not even shoot at that ship again (since the shield has regenerated he might fire elsewhere, or he may have fired all that he could or he may be depending on ordnance to finish the job, etc).

3rd turn, there's a lot of squads shooting at the ship and they manage to regen a lot so shields absorb 3 hits this time (same as a normal CG). Etc. So this would be considerably weaker than just giving the ship 3 shields.

When we're talking BB levels I don't think that 1 shield is enough. So, how about a flat 4+ save, allow multiple shields on larger craft, but only allow a shield to regen once per turn. So if it's successful it can't then regen again later.





Ugh, nevermind, ditch the whole idea and just give them normal shields.

[horizon]

lol

[lastspartacus]

Maybe I didn't word it right.  I was saying that instead of worrying about regenerating shields, simply give one shield to all eldar ships, with a graduating save on them to prevent the placement of a BM, thus representing rapidly regenerating/advanced light shielding.

[lastspartacus]

You know, I think I may have misunderstood you, Sig.  I thought you were suggesting that the regeneration was attempted when other fire was declared.  If you mean after the ship/squadron fires, you then roll to regenerate a shield, I actually really like that.
Don't complicate it by adding multiple shields though, Eldar think that is primitive to simply stack on layers.
Give all Eldar ships one shield, with the increased ability to regenerate, the larger more advanced ships having an easier time with it.

I feel happy.  I feel the whole fluff/play issue has been solved

Edit:  Once a ship fails to regen shield, that should be it for the turn.

[Valhallan]

what would be the effect, then, on weapons that ignore holofields? they just ignore the one shield? no regen throw is made?

__
side suggustion - and roy you probably already tried this... but:

no shields.
holofields as per MSM CE. *but* drop the save to a 3+, and 4+ when within a specific range (either 15 or 30 cm).

might be fun, i'll playtest it after finals.
__________

[lastspartacus]

wouldnt ignore shield.

[horizon]

Hi Valhallan,
didn't even try....

[lastspartacus]

I've been thinking.  I think this is the perfect defensive layout for Eldar.

4+, 5+ prow armor on the capital ships, for sure on the craftworld varieties.  Possibly 4+ armor all around on the escorts, 5+ prow armor on perhaps the pricier ones.

keep 5+ criticals.

Holofields cause right shift on gunnery chart.  Lances saved depending on range bands as per v1.9, but I think the saves could stand to be better.
say, 3+ past 30, 4+ in normal range, and 5+ or 6+ when within 15.
Extreme close proximity to the EM flux of the holofields causes great conflict to the machine spirits of attack craft and torpedos.
Ordance markers treat Eldar vessels with active holofields as if they were in contact with a blast marker.

All eldar ships have one shield.  If a blast marker is placed as a result of fire from a ship/squadron, immediately after a roll is made.  If passed, that ship removes a blast marker from base contact.  2+ for battleships, 3+ for grand cruisers, 4+ for cruisers, 5+ for light cruisers, 6+ for escorts.

Eldar turrets reroll misses against ordnance.