Upper size limitations on Ork vessels

[Sigoroth]

In a couple of threads I've come across the notion that Orks are not able to construct large vessels. Their character BBs are only equivalent of an IN/Chaos CG for example. While I do understand the conceptual reason for this notion (in short, they suck) this notion is demonstrably wrong. The Orks have the Hulk. This is a 40 hit monstrosity. While a good part of it may be an asteroid the rest is scavenged ships. The fact it can move at all is testament to the Orks capability to construct and maintain a large "ship".

While an Ork ship will usually be destroyed before reaching a very large size it is not unreasonable to suggest that some Ork vessels may have enough parts cobbled on to achieve a true BB size (14 hits for Orks) or something even larger, on par with the PK in size (16 hit size).

As for maintaining such a large ship, well all Orks really need to keep their technology going is ... more Orks! The psychic gestalt conciousness of Orks grows with size. Presumably this is what keeps the Ork hulk going in the absence of more skilled technicians.

[horizon]

I agree, there is no limit on what an Ork would slap onto a ship.

[Plaxor]

Hulks are naturally occurring, and very very large. Orks just use them when they find them/they randomly appear in system. It is the primary method for travel until they come across hulks that they can rebuild into Kroozers!

Like I said before, I would rather have the BBs upped to 14 hits than anything else. Although the fluff behind that is faulty, as they are built on the hulks of downed navy ships. As armageddon is essentially the largest battle that the orks have ever fought, and there were no ships mentioned larger than grand cruiser status it is unlikely that any exist.

Although if the Orks were able to capture a battleship class vessel and refit it, then this could work. These are extremely hard to come by.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing designs on BBs, and fluff behind them. Perhaps there is an ancient ship that the orks managed to salvage from an ancient battle, and have been wreaking havoc around the maelstrom with. Or it's the flagship of the arch arsonist of caldera or whatnot.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I think Orks could do with 2 more HP than the typical IN vessel. So 10 for cruisers/battlecruiser size, 12 for GC size, 14 for battleships and maybe they can even make one extra big battleship for 16.

[RCgothic]

I think Orks could do with 2 more HP than the typical IN vessel. So 10 for cruisers/battlecruiser size, 12 for GC size, 14 for battleships and maybe they can even make one extra big battleship for 16.

+1

[lastspartacus]

I really want to agree, it feels right for orks to have higher hits on their battleships, by slapping on a bunch of gubbins and positively packing it with ork crew.  But some thoughts keep me from agreeing.

1.  Every ship I can think of beyond 12 hits, besides monstrously grown hive ships, were made in the warp or constructed by the Old Ones, likely in the warp as well.
Planet Killer, Hulks, and Blackstones.

2.  Hulks are a different story than regular ships.  One could say that beyond battleship hitpoints, anything Orks create would function as a Hulk.
Orks essentially find them premade, and reactivate/tack on new systems to give it some semblance of mobility, but its nothing like a true warship.

3.  It is stated in the fluff that Orks salvage battleships, but rarely use the chassis because the level of technology is beyond them.
Essentially, 10 hit kroozers are that big because its as big as orks usually go, because we all know orks greatly desire to be as big as possible.
There are a few notable examples of larger 12 hit ships, but as difficult as it is for the far more advanced IN to hold similarly ships together, gestalt conciousness only  goes so far I'd think.

So in conclusion, maybe a 'lite hulk' or a very slow and unwieldy warship could exist in the galaxy as a 14-16hp character ship, but I don't feel its a hole thats missing in the ork fleet.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Technology is different from strapping on more and more bits and pieces of armor or whatever metal Orks prefer to use which is the equivalent of increasing HP.

[horizon]

Exactly tech does not equal size in this case.

[lastspartacus]

I know.  But its a solid fluff piece that orks struggle to approach battleship size and still maintain a workable warship.

[Plaxor]

I think it's a combination of limiting factors. You can't just make a ship have more hits just by slapping on more armor, you would create more mass, and add more space to the ship requiring more power, and then you need more engines which need more power.

Everything in Orks references their lack of maintaining power facilities at a substantial amount. Hulks are able to due this due to size enough for just about as much firepower as an ork needs.

You're forgetting the other half of ork fluff, one half wants to be big and tough (gork, or is it mork?) and the other wants to be fast and sneaky (the other god). So I don't think orks would be likely to strap on so much armor that they would travel at 15cm.

I feel that the idea of a large(r) vessel is similar to the fight for a larger one in dark eldar. It's not justifiable by the fluff, and people only want it because it 'would be cool'. Yeah, it would be. I would probably never run the vessel if there were one, but whatever. Fine, I'll play along.

Da Pieyer: Flagship of the Arch-Arsonist.

Da pieyer is a warship so anchient that no one really knows it's origins. All that is known is that it is a relic passed to each arch arsonist upon his... designation? as leader. The Imperium has only encountered the ship on less than a dozen encounters, larger than any other ork vessel known, the ship is a peculiarity. There is no consensus as to how the orks would be able to manage the power systems on such a large vessel. It isn't believed that the ship has ever fought against another battleship class vessel, instead the ship performs random raids, destroying entire cities from orbit, presumably out of Snagrots boredom, or to show off his power to other ork leaders.


Da Pieyer     415 points
Class/Hits       Turns/Speed  Shields       Armor
Battleship/14      45/15           3            6+/5+

Prow Gunz:  2D6+6  45cm  F
Port/Starboard Gunz D6+4  L/R
Dorsal Lances  D3+3 45cm L/F/R
Port/Starboard Heavy guns: 6 L/R
Prow Bombardment Cannon: Str 8 F

Special rules: Da pieyer is the flagship of the arch arsonist, and therefore if it ever takes a fire critical hit, it's leadership will become 10 for one full turn.

[lastspartacus]

Hah. Got to say I at least love the ld10 rule, thats great.  We now need to make an arch arsonist ship even if its not high on the hit points.

I actually think DE battleships are far more likely than 14 hit ork ships, but like I said, its not a big deal if someone wants to play with one.