DE/Eldar/Tau Flawed Ships

[Plaxor]

So this is the thread for every fleet that isn't SM/IN/Chaos/Orks. So Eldar/CWE, Dark Eldar, Tau, Necrons and Tyranids.

Note this of course uses the latest from the HA, and eldar in this document are according to msm.

So proposed changes so far:

Tau:
Defender = 2hp escort [Horizon, RCgothic Plaxor (Meh, would make for a small faq)]


Confirmed Changes

Tau:
Hero: -2lances, -2FP (one each side), No longer restricted.
Merchant: 105pt cost, 6hits standard, upgrade to 8 hits for 20 points. +10 for lance variant

Corsairs:
Nightshade 50pts
Hemlock 50pts
Aconite 60pts
Hellebore: 80pts with profile change: 2wb, 1 pl, 1 fighter launch bay
Solaris: weapon range @45cm, no right shift.
Shadow: +2 torps, +2wb

Craftworld Eldar
Flame of Asuryan, name change: -> Void Dragon CG. , keel pulsar Front only No longer requires Hero to buy. Just supreme admiral?
Shadowhunter: old special rule. Speed bands +5cm, DE variant lance, +1wb, 45pts
Ghost Ships: Using MMS version, without shields (duh).

Dark Eldar:
Mimic engines for free
Torture can buy two impalers for 20 points, not 2 for 20 each.

[horizon]

Tau:
Hero = no point change, drop 2 lance, no restrictions
Merchant = 6hits per standard, +1 shield as an option 10pts
Defender = 2hp escort

aside of changing Corsair & Craftworld Eldar rules to MMS, within official realms this should be done:
Corsair Eldar
Nightshade 50pts
Hemlock 50pts
Aconite 60pts
Hellebore: 80pts with profile change: 2wb, 1 pl, 1 fighter launch bay
Solaris: weapon range @45cm, no right shift.
Shadow: +2 torps, +2wb

Craftworld Eldar
Per FAQ2010 with exception of:
Flame of Asuryan, name change: -> Void Dragon CG. , keel pulsar Front only
Shadowhunter: old special rule. Speed bands +5cm, DE variant lance. ~45pts.

Dark Eldar
Mimic Engines for free.
Two Impalers on cruiser sized vessel.
Introduction of light cruiser (book of nemesis)
Introduction of grand cruiser (?)

[Plaxor]

Thanks Horizon, didn't want to get into some arguing about MMS. 2x impalers were approved on cruisers by HA, so we wont deal with that.

2 shields on merchant? isn't that a bit unfluffy? It is a CL as well.

Hmm... how about increasing the merchants base to 6 as you said, but keeping the upgrade to increase its hits by one or two according to the fluff blurb.

[RCgothic]

I'll second everything horizon said.

[Plaxor]

Horizon, could you come up with a CG dark eldar stats?

[Plaxor]

Also, what about thoughts on the Kroot warsphere, demiurg (should we include the citadel?), demiurg fleet list options (as per faq 2010?).

Rogue trader vessels and stuff (per Nate's document?)

There also is nothing for the tyranids... is the feeling that they don't need any changes?

[commander]

Tau:
Hero = no point change, drop 2 lance, no restrictions
Merchant = 6hits per standard, +1 shield as an option 10pts
Defender = 2hp escort

Hero: still too strong if we look at the fluff that goes with it, as printed in the book. Also a look at the former classes and hulls they can build. Way too much firepower on that ship.
- 6HP max, that's the technology they just reached; so no 8 HP.
- Previous class gave one module over to storage of the missiles and Hero get lances AND LB's? Come on. Drop the LB.
- Heavy prow armament, again. S6 Torps AND FP4 R45. Way to much attempted upon the available platform.

Still not sure how I would equip this ship but it would be weaker and cheaper.

Redesigning the whole lot seems the better solution IMO.

Escorts: although I can imagine even up to 4 point escorts for some other fleets, I do NOT see any multiple HP escorts for the Tau.

[horizon]

Hi Plaxor,
their are more knowledgable people to do that.


Commander,
I disagree. The GW Armada ships are large. So the 8 hits is a must on the Hero. It will also help in keeping GW Tau / FW Tau two distinct fleets.

The Hero is a line ship, THE Tau line ship. I have no problems with the ship going down to 2 lances without further changes. Perhaps a lowering of missiles may be in order but otherwise nothing else.

Ha! The Defender is one of the 4 Biggest Escort Models out there. It should be a pioneer of the 2hits generation.

[Plaxor]

Ha! The Defender is one of the 4 Biggest Escort Models out there. It should be a pioneer of the 2hits generation.

Guesses on other three:

Dhow, Corsair, and um... both the FW gladius and nova?

[horizon]

All no iirc.
One of them is the Ork escort, the largest one.

[Plaxor]

Ah, the Jackal and Hellebore. At least of those with official models. (I cheated and looked in warp rift)

[commander]

Well, no. With the previous ship class (merchant) they only recently discovered a way to have HP6 hits. And than a jump to 8 with no indication they got better, again? Nope, not in my book.

What I am thinking instead is:
- HP6
- S6 missiles on front
- S1 R30 lances per side (L,F and R,F)
- S2 R45 WB per side (L,F and R,F)
NO LB; cost? (have not smotherman at hand to indication of cost)

Still good firepower in front (FP4 R45 WB, S2 R30 lances and S6 torps), crap on the broadside. Just like fluff says.

[commander]

But, I can live with HP8 on the hero (if I must) 

[horizon]

Yeah, you should.
The Explorer has 12 hits.
Hitpoints has less to with technology!

[lastspartacus]

Tau:
Hero = no point change, drop 2 lance, no restrictions [Horizon, Plaxor, RCgothic]
Merchant = 6hits per standard, +1 shield as an option 10pts [Horizon, RCgothic]
Defender = 2hp escort [Horizon, RCgothic Plaxor (Meh, would make for a small faq)]

My thoughts exactly on the Hero.
Agreed on Merchant, except the 2nd shield.  This is primitive Korvattra.
Shady on 2hp escorts.

Corsair Eldar
Nightshade 50pts [Horizon, RCgothic]
Hemlock 50pts [Horizon, RCgothic]
Aconite 60pts [Horizon, RCgothic]
Hellebore: 80pts with profile change: 2wb, 1 pl, 1 fighter launch bay [Horizon, RCgothic]
Solaris: weapon range @45cm, no right shift. [Horizon, RCgothic]
Shadow: +2 torps, +2wb [Horizon, RCgothic]
Craftworld Eldar
Flame of Asuryan, name change: -> Void Dragon CG. , keel pulsar Front only [Horizon, RCgothic, Plaxor]
Shadowhunter: old special rule. Speed bands +5cm, DE variant lance. ~45pts. [Horizon, RCgothic]
Dark Eldar
Mimic Engines for free. [Horizon, RCgothic Plaxor (would be happy at half cost)
Introduction of light cruiser (book of nemesis) [Horizon, Plaxor, RCgothic]
Introduction of grand cruiser (patghiggins stats?)  [Horizon, Plaxor, RCgothic]

I generally discount all this and move to drop it all and just play MMS variants for all the subraces.  I do vote for free mimic engines and more DE versatility and larger ships.

I'll stop for now, since I think we are only talking about ships that really need fixing.  My next suggestion would have been 15cm speed razorfiends.