November 01, 2024, 01:19:37 PM

Author Topic: 2011 Book of the Void  (Read 19861 times)

Offline Zelnik

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 775
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2011, 08:49:07 PM »
Okay, most of your concerns have already been accounted for with more recent write ups sent to cyberdragon. Let me see what i can work with.

1. (rapid turrets). Why not twice at the same target? because fluff? maybe the weapon would overheat with such rapid fire and it needs time to dissipate the heat.

Mostly because it is an issue of balance, because otherwise i would just add a second lance.

2.(math) Because it is already a present mechanic in the game, and most of us own calculators. With the known "round up" policy in the game, its' not so hard.

3. (AAC) I can't count how many times i wish i had a save on that damage.

4. This has been clarified in a newer write up.  Basically, by taking this, you get the choice of two torpedo ammunition types. One can be normal torps and never run out, or they both can be special torps taken from the table. all special torps abide by the "run out of ammo" rules.  If you run out of ammo for one, you don't for the other selected ammo until doubles for both are rolled.

5 (scram launchers)

This is similar to the berserker rule for chaos vessels, you may launch more then normal, but from just this ship (not another).  The whole fleet limit thing was a stupid choice and should have been ship-by-ship. 20 points to launch st 12 bombers or A-boats.. yes i think it's worth it, even if it's every other round.

6. Resilient bombers, fighters and A boats are powerful to say the least, on a launch capacity 8 platform, its even better. I would say its worth the points.

7. remember that the ship is prone to critical damage, also, the chance to repair like a necron for one round can be hugely beneficial.


8. that's a typo. it should be reduce BY 10 cm, Either way, i am open to suggestion on these rules.

Offline Eudaimon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2011, 02:54:35 AM »
Quote
I agree that we can go over the rules with a fine tooth comb and locate overpowered rules and isolate them, but in doing so, we are limiting the freedom you so desire.
it's true, but I would still have more than three options per ship

Quote
The way I desired the setup was: if you wanted a large number of ships, take them vanilla and compensate for their lack of firepower with numbers. If you wanted more powerful ships, pay for it and have a Heavy Cruiser fleet (much like the Admech fleet is a battlecruiser fleet).
ok, this can be achieved

Quote
Another problem with both of the old upgrade list is simply that some upgrades inevitably are taken in preference to others.  Every time I used to make a list I found myself taking the same two or three upgrades over and over again, leaving the rest by the wayside to be ignored.  I wanted each ship to stand on its own and serve a unique roll in the fleet instead of a platform for the same upgrades over and over again.
ok, it's another problem with uber-combinations.

I admit that I have always avoided some upgrades:
-reactive armor: I have always preferred the heavy armor upgrade
-enhanced turret systems: I have always preferred the advanced turret system, the first one seems to be designed for escorts, but I have the habit to make them travel in base contact for turret protection
-backup shield systems: in single games it can't be determinant, it's easier that it won't be usad
-auto sealing bulkheads isn't my favourite


I would suggest the change of Auto sealing bulheads, Backup shield systems and Reactive armor (even if I think that the first and the second are very fluffy).

Which are your less favourite upgrades?


On the other side, I have to say that in almost every game I played with the heavy armour. Maybe it need an increased point value?

Which were you super-combos that we need to avoid? I found them rather in the very first Diasporex fleet list


Apart all, in your little tables there is a lot of new tasty upgrades for beefing the big list

Offline Zelnik

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 775
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2011, 12:52:08 PM »
I am actually really thrilled to even be having this conversation. It is so refreshing to know that someone aside from me and a few friends enjoys the Diasporex as much as I do!

Now, getting back to the point.


Another really important issue that needs to be addressed is the fact that while the ships are built on the same template design, their internal workings are significantly different. It is just not realistic to imagine that all ships would be open to the same upgrades as another.

Take for example, the Ganymede. Most of its mission section is taken up by short lived power systems to keep its gigantic lance cannons operating. Why would this ship be just as flexible as, say, a Callisto, which has a far more flexible design?

Now, Let me highlight some of the upgrades that I think could be adjusted or replaced.

Callisto: AI assisted targetting (the new name for the lance upgrade)

Ganymede: Power reserves

Europa: Reinforced Superstructure

Titan: Additional Shield core

Human escorts: huge engines and huge guns.



Offline RCgothic

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 795
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2011, 01:01:20 PM »
1. (rapid turrets). Why not twice at the same target? because fluff? maybe the weapon would overheat with such rapid fire and it needs time to dissipate the heat.

But a second time at a different target is no less frequently than twice at one target, so heat dissipation/recharge time makes no sense. Hitting on a 3+ makes sense as a rule for turrets with a superior tracking ability, but at the ranges involved it isn't the rate the turret can turn that makes the difference, and as already mentioned existing weaponry already has the ability to fire into multiple arcs AND combine fire against one target.

Offline Eudaimon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2011, 02:52:25 PM »
speaking about Old Age of Tecnology, I sometimes thought that those ships could have every device (the upgrades) on board but that they could power only very few of them for energy reserves reason. So every ship has the possibility to use every upgrade.
Old Age Tecnology is better, it also means that devices are more little than those of the present times, so they all can be contained into a ship.


We can always rely on the traditional version: it's not the ship that is flexible, it's Diasporex tecnology that permit those changes

Offline Zelnik

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 775
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2011, 04:14:11 PM »
You are absolutely right, but let's not forget that the modern ships have had most of the comforts that the old age enjoyed removed in favor of stronger engine/weapon output. 

Better technology is not just about blowing things up, its about making life on the ship more hospitible.  I am removing the upgrade restrictions, so if you want to purchase all three upgrades and have a 200+ point cruiser, so be it.

Part of what makes the technology better is the understanding and capacity to upgrade it as well!

Offline zaxqua

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2011, 09:17:49 PM »
Human Escorts
Huge gun: may take one extra wepon system, reduced speed by 15cm. 5points
Huge engines: loses one wepon system, increase speed by 15cm. 5points

I like what you did with the upgrade table the Saturn, Neptune, Titan, and Ganymede just changed from "barely useful" to "Extremly Viable." And the Io is EVEN BETTER, if you can believe that.

Offline Eudaimon

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2011, 09:34:04 PM »
so at this point the change to little tables is irreversible, right?

Offline Zelnik

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 775
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2011, 11:59:57 PM »
Zaxqua: A rather bold concept. I approve! Thanks by the way.


Eudaimon: Nothing is irreversible, I have just received a LOT of popular support for the idea. I would need some serious convincing to undo it.

Offline Zelnik

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 775
Re: 2010 Book of the Void
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2011, 07:17:31 PM »
Okay, I am going to be doing another update to the changes (which means the first post in this forum WILL change.)

Again, What i need most of all is opinions on STORY. I need to know how to progress the fluff in the best possible way. Here are a few ways I was thinking of doing so.

"A Day in the life of a Diasporex Officer"

Piratical and opportunistic tactics to acquire supplies difficult to refine themselves (dense alloys, foodstuffs, etc)

Observation of the Warp (their disregard that anything out of the warp can be defined as "demons" or "monsters", they are just predatory entities that are not deserving of superstition.

Genetic screening (deliberate removal of psyker gene)

 

Offline zaxqua

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: 2011 Book of the Void
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2011, 08:02:23 PM »
Okay, I am going to be doing another update to the changes (which means the first post in this forum WILL change.)

Again, What i need most of all is opinions on STORY. I need to know how to progress the fluff in the best possible way. Here are a few ways I was thinking of doing so.
There are two thing that would make the fluff more believable and more fun. The First is to make facts about daily life like culture, traditions, ect. The Second is to invent different factions or sub-groups that have different ideas and goals but who all work for the good of the Diasporex.

"A Day in the life of a Diasporex Officer"
Sounds like a good short story. Could I help with that? I love writing stories based in 40k

Piratical and opportunistic tactics to acquire supplies difficult to refine themselves (dense alloys, foodstuffs, etc)
Alloys:yes Food:mabye, but I think they could grow a lot in the earthseed and goulds

Observation of the Warp (their disregard that anything out of the warp can be defined as "demons" or "monsters", they are just predatory entities that are not deserving of superstition.
Yes. That would make absolute perfect sense with the fluff.

Genetic screening (deliberate removal of psyker gene)
A)why would such a free-thinking and tolerant race deliberately get rid of something useful? B)this is completely at odds with your last idea. If thier not supersticious and want to study the warp, then they can't get rid of psykers. C)How do they communicate without astropaths?


Offline Zelnik

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 775
Re: 2011 Book of the Void
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2011, 06:06:36 AM »
There is only so much you can grow and make on the Earthseed. With several billion people to feed, some things can run short, and resources for fertilizers and livestock can be difficult to maintain while feeding a large population.


Sure you can help, please send it to me so i can look it over.


Why screen for psykers? because psykers are dangerous and unnecessary. An alpha psyker alone can blow a hole in the side of a ship, or draw the attention of warp entities. It is a security issue. Any psykers born are immediately confiscated and raised in military intelligence departments for shadowy black operation projects.

Remember the story of how a normal orc suddenly had a demon explode from his head while traveling through the warp?  They would like to avoid that.


Offline zaxqua

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: 2011 Book of the Void
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2011, 09:57:34 PM »
If they don't get food from the earthseed, where else can they posibly get it? Piratical operations could never feed all the diasporex, and they don't maintain planetary outposts. Ther are only two options then: either they have advanced and alien technology allowing them to grow/syntesize foodstuffs at a ludicrous rate, or they have a massive and incredibly complex network of secret traders who siphon suplies from the Imperium and alien races. Or mabye a combination of both.

I have a few questions regarding the story, will PM you later.

I must have misread the psyker comment, I thought you meant genetically modifying humans so that psykers ceased to exist. Taking them at birth and puting them to special use is good and matches fluff from other races (Imperium especially).

Offline Zelnik

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 775
Re: 2011 Book of the Void
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2011, 06:52:39 AM »
Allow me to clarify.


On a strict rationing diet, The diasporex manage well, but with any sort of agriculture, there is a general loss of resources over time, even in a near-perfect system.  This is why phosphorous mines are so wildly profitable.

Even if the Earthseed is huge, there is only so much resources they can devote to livestock. because of this, protein tends to be a rare treat. Even High Senators rarely see it, and may be lucky to see fresh meat once a year instead of Soy, or other synthesized proteins.  This is just the horrible truth about living off world: space is at a premium.

This means whenever a supply convoy is found, they are raided and anything useful is taken. Things like raw materials, foods, fuel cores are taken, along with a few ships to be broken down for raw materials.  Things like weapons of war, farming supplies, etc. are ignored.

Another thing limiting the agriculture is that the Earthseed has some of the very last examples of pure Terran biomes, and replacing them with agriculture would destroy them forever, along with eradicating any surviving species that live in said biomes. These are held to be some of the Earthseeds greatest treasures, and any foolish Senator who suggests it quickly finds himself disgraced and voted out of office.

The Goulds tend to be used by the other races as their "home" base, since many still prefer their own company to that of humans, and some cannot survive in an oxygen rich environment.  While there are several of them, most of them are provided to the partners of the Diasporex and are far closer to floating cities then colonizing vessels at this point.

They are not modified, its closer to selective breeding.  When a couple desire to have children, their DNA is screened for the likelihood of producing a psyker for a child.  If it is a high probability, they are barred from breeding and suggested to adopt.  The High Senate recognizes that this is a rather draconian approach, but it's a better alternative to having an Alpha Psyker lose his mind and turn the Earthseed into a lawnchair (yes they can do this.)

When one is born, usually in defiance of the law (where the parents are severely punished for risking the safety of the fleet) or by sheer chance, the child is taken by the Naval command and raised in highly controlled environments so they can grow up to manage their powers responsibly.  They are NOT above killing the psyker if they prove to be unstable. 

The end result is that the Psyker gene is weaker in the Terrans then it is in Humans, simply by force of breeding and social pressures. When your home is a space ship, it's just too dangerous.  Also, remember that a single Oddboy can be put on a stick and used as a 15cm lance.  Imagine that coming from INSIDE the ship where there is no armor plating!

Offline zaxqua

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: 2011 Book of the Void
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2011, 10:08:42 PM »
So, basically, they eat synthetic junk and natural food is a rare delicacy enjoyed almost entirely by the higher ranks. I can work with that.

I see your point about psykers, from reading on the subject I've found that most of them are insane and hard to control. Idea: each diasporex psyker is accompanied by a unit of elite "Black Guard" whose sole purpose is to shoot him if something goes wrong.

Oh, and if a alpha psyker can turn the earthseed into a lawnchair, than by the same reasoning a psyker could make several more earthseeds complete with ecosystems out of a chess set.  ;D