List of flawed ships

[Plaxor]

Compare what the vessel actually has for that profile.

It has firepower of similar strength to an Oberon, Launch Capacity roughly equal to an Oberon, one less turret, 5cm more speed, and torpedoes instead of prow sensors.

Based on that, the torps option should be somewhere in the region of the Emperor in price.

True, but it does have +1 boarding modifier. Like I said, up to 30 points would seem fine. It won't be the better option, but chaos pays a bit of a premium to use torps.

So can I put you down for 35?

[Sigoroth]

I would drop the base cost of the Despoiler a little. Even with a fixed profile 400 pts is probably too much. Say, 390 pts. Then I'd leave the torp option a straight swap for no change in cost. It is just an option after all. Though I'd maybe make it strength 9. That brings it in line with other torpedo armed BBs and offsets the suckiness of the option slightly.

[RCgothic]

I don't think there's any way a torpedo volley could equal strength 4 launch bays. It would have to be S12 at least.

[Valhallan]

hows about option to drop 2 LB for 9 torps, no points change?
what again is roy's desp profile exactly? and what does it smotherman to (for an approximation)?

[RCgothic]

Port/SB WBs FP10 @ 60cm
Port/SB LBs S2
Dorsal Lances S3@60cm
Prow LBs S4

Smotherman gives 399pts.
Variant with S9 torps instead of prow launch bays is 362.5

[Plaxor]

hows about option to drop 2 LB for 9 torps, no points change?

I like this idea.

Anyone else think the Sedito Opprimere is too powerful? I think that it should drop its P/S bombards to strength 8 but have its launch bays returned to str.3

[Plaxor]

Working through the IN/SM pdf and was wondering if the VPs for Venerable battle barges should go to 50% for crippled and 150% for destroyed. I mean... 4x victory points for crippled, but only 1.5x for destroyed? This value makes more sense.

[horizon]

Plaxor,
No Seditio is okay. No change.

[BaronIveagh]

hows about option to drop 2 LB for 9 torps, no points change?

I like this idea.

Anyone else think the Sedito Opprimere is too powerful? I think that it should drop its P/S bombards to strength 8 but have its launch bays returned to str.3

Agree.  Str 20 is a bit much.

[lastspartacus]

I think its fine as a character ship, for its points.  I just don't like the idea of broadside bombardment cannons, in fluff.

[Plaxor]

So getting to the end of my IN fleets document and had a few small questions on fleet lists:

So the space marines have a Dominion and Crusade fleet list.

I was wondering if anyone would complain if I kept it as armada has it and just had the Armageddon fleet list and the Space marine fleet list?

The differences would be that the SM fleet list would have access to a fortress monastery. Also I need some thoughts on Thunderhawk annihilators, I was thinking that any ship with launch bays could 'upgrade' them.

[Sigoroth]

Upon further consideration I do think the SO a little too powerful. It's not just a swap of range for BC rules at +X pts. It removes the interaction effect between WBs and BCs, making the SM fire more efficient. Also, the loss of range isn't that big a deal since they're WBs and so the extra range isn't worth so much due to loss of strength.

Also, I still find the loss of the prow TH to be inexplicable. I don't particularly want a more powerful ship, just that this unexplained loss is irksome. I would suggest that it gets its third TH and drop its broadside BCs to 10 at most. Perhaps also a slight price hike.

[lastspartacus]

Magma Bomb storage space :p

Same thing with the borkan explorer.

[Plaxor]

Upon further consideration I do think the SO a little too powerful. It's not just a swap of range for BC rules at +X pts. It removes the interaction effect between WBs and BCs, making the SM fire more efficient. Also, the loss of range isn't that big a deal since they're WBs and so the extra range isn't worth so much due to loss of strength.

Also, I still find the loss of the prow TH to be inexplicable. I don't particularly want a more powerful ship, just that this unexplained loss is irksome. I would suggest that it gets its third TH and drop its broadside BCs to 10 at most. Perhaps also a slight price hike.

Remember the SO is a VBB so it is subject to the 'bonus vps' rule. I think the best thing to do is 10BBs and an extra TH at the current price.

[Plaxor]

I'm removing the restriction on carrier SC's unless anyone gives protest. It doesn't seem like they need to be restricted in this way.

Also I've been reading over TH annihilators. It says they are fighters and bombers, but the way they are described as working is as just bombers. I imagine what they're meant to be is resilient bombers, like tau mantas.

Either that or they would essentially be resilient fighta-bombers.

Edit: I've also been looking at the 'powers of chaos' document. I don't know where the need for 'super' marks of chaos came from, having more abilities for ships which worship the gods.

Also the non-nurgle character ships seem unnecessary. I understood nurgle's reason for having one, as  Typhus had a fleet 1/3 the size of Abbadon at the onset of the 13th black crusade.

The thousand sons during the 13th were busy in the webway (as only Arhiman's group ever left), and khorne/slannesh ships don't seem different enough/like they would according to fluff. I mean aura of lust? What?

Anyways, as the Emasculator and Hecate are becoming legal, tell me how they should be balanced/where they should be placed (just in 13th I presume?)

Also Chaos Space Hulk? I imagine no one would be bothered if this disappeared.

Edit (2):

So here's some thoughts on the Fortress Monastery; for +125 points, it gains: SM rules (including better LD, resistance to H+R attacks etc.), 6wbs per quadrant, 3 thunderhawks per quadrant (which is more than half of the 4 that the ramilies gets.) 6+ armor. Boarding torpedoes, 2 extra teleport attacks (although these will be deleted with the terminator revision and unnecessary honor guard being deleted)

What it loses: 2 lances per quadrant.

Does not make sense to me. I think that the vessel would be perfectly fine in comparison if it had 5+ armor just like the Ramilies.