List of flawed ships

[RCgothic]

perfect, boring and non-Imperium.
10wb@45 (190pts) /6torps is just good.

The 10wb@45 option would remain, no-one is suggesting we ditch that.
How is it more perfect or boring than a Lunar or Gothic? It trades reliable damage output regardless of facing for a higher damage potential if you line up a perfect shot - something the Dominator already does (and hence why it is more valued as a core cruiser in spite of its NC).
Again, how is it any different from a Lunar or Gothic? It allows players to play to their preferred style rather than be handicapped by the reduction to FP10.

And how do you figure Non-Imperium? I can think of no reason whatsoever the Imperium wouldn't have the motivation or ability to build a Dominator-type cruiser with torps. It fits their fleet doctrine absolutely.

Whether or not it's "Boring" is entirely subjective, and I don't agree that it is.

[horizon]

Per FAQ2010:

Armageddon 235pts
Retaliator 260pts
Styx 260pts
Excorcist may take a-boats (+10pts :/ ).
Overlord 220pts (+15 for targetting matrix).

I tried to push Dictator/Mars -10pts but the HA declined. :/

[RCgothic]

Well, that's at least two changes identical to what we were going to make. Armageddon and Styx no longer need to be included in the Flawed Ships article.

Do we have any discussion on if we're satisfied with the HA's changes to the Overlord, Retaliator and Exorcist?

I suspect that 200pts and a targetting matrix for the Overlord may just be enough, and if we change it it will just be gratuitous "Because we want it to work this way" rather than "because it doesn't work".

[horizon]

Yeah, I think the Overlord could be excluded.


The Excorcists/Retaliator should be included due profile changes.

[Plaxor]

Retaliator and exorcist will have 6lb. They should be included.

The overlord will be removed unless there is great protest.

[Plaxor]

I fixed the beginning, the Overlord is now as per Faq 2010.

I made the Exorcist have ABs at +5 points, a more correct price.

One last thought, no one has put any comments on it, the Idolator, should it have LFR lance and 'new' Fraal tech instead of it's current Fraal tech rules. Basically in addition to the no shift over 45cm, it would count any ship within 30 as closing. With either of these the ship would go back to 45 points.

Anyways, with that said. Flawed ships 1.0 (IN/Chaos) done. We'll see what forgeworld does for IA10.....

[RCgothic]

In the interest of keeping things consistent, use the new Fraal rules.

No L/F/R Lance, or it would be going to 50pts.

[RCgothic]

One more thing:

Tyrant: 175 base cost, 190 upgraded version

When was this agreed? Are we really going with 175pts base? Is the upgrade to 45cm really worth 15pts?

[RCgothic]

Also, can we clarify the Apocalypse:

Is the Lance range 60cm base? (with blast marker over 30cm)
Or must it still go on Lock On orders to fire over 30cm?

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Why not just follow the one in the latest 2010 FAQ?

[horizon]

I agree, it is a nice solution I think. It improves the Apocalypse a lot.

[Plaxor]

What? So are we using FAQ apocalypse rules?

[Plaxor]

Fixed the 175tyrant typo. Also Idolators now just have 'new fraal tech'.

The fact about the tyrant is that everyone upgrades it to 45cm. One of the ideas behind this revision is to prevent any 'obvious choices' in list building. So if the base one is 175, and the upgrade is 15 points, that's probably enough to make people think twice about upgrading it.

Also we never did talk about the Dominator's downgrade. is the difference between 12wbs@30 and 6wbs@45 worth 5 points? It seems to me that either the ship should get 8fp@45cm or have the cost decreased by 10 points.

[horizon]

To be honest : who would take 6wb if ha can have 12?


Apocalypse: FAQ2010 is fine with me.

[Plaxor]

To be honest : who would take 6wb if ha can have 12?

Longer range and a cheaper nova cannon? That's the point....