List of flawed ships

[Plaxor]

actually the one tied with +2 torps was 'sigoroth's idea. So we can just do that, however I don't feel the need for the 1/750 restriction.

[RCgothic]

1 per 500pts would certainly be sufficient.

[Sigoroth]

actually the one tied with +2 torps was 'sigoroth's idea. So we can just do that, however I don't feel the need for the 1/750 restriction.

Eh?

[RCgothic]

Translation:

The vote was tied +2 torps vs 2torps & WB FP2, so Plaxor made an executive decision to go with the one closer to the present profile.

[Plaxor]

Translation:

The vote was tied +2 torps vs 2torps & WB FP2, so Plaxor made an executive decision to go with the one closer to the present profile.

Correct, and 2wbs are so pointless..... Usually on any other ship you trade 6fp for 2 launch bays, so the reasoning was that there would be more firepower, and that it would probably act like an escort, where there are 'weapons batteries' all over the ship, but it's easier to represent them as a single prow weapon.

Also, did we decide the Overlord's upgrade should cost 10 points?

[RCgothic]

+10pts for the Overlord sounds good for me.

Note that FAQ2010 drops the FP8@60cm Overlord to 220pts - I think FP12@45 for 225 and 235 for FP10 @ 60cm is fair.

[Sigoroth]

Really? Dropped down to 220? Huh, that's more than I'd hoped for.

[horizon]

Yeah, didn't I post that? Post astray! Heh. Doh. Odd. Noodles..

220 is indeed good. Makes it even at lower fp kinda interesting to take now.

[Valhallan]

my votes: for the stuff i'm current on

tyrant: yep. 12WB, at 180points w/ torps. +10pnts for 10wb at 45. (prefer no NC option).
empy. probably not.
SM SC, yep.
styx, yep if not -15 points.
achy: no, I'd rather see 60cm dorsals and 45cm broadsides, otherwise too much like the Deso/like the hades at same cost with better firing profile.
dev: yep, or 45cm lances. one of the two.
sm escorts: agree with horizon's revised statement
warmaster: whatev' the 13th list is better anyway. politely abstain from a vote.

not sure on the rest.

[Sigoroth]

Let's have another look at the torp/WB Defiant at 100 pts. This isn't to belabour a point (this thing has already been talked about so much), but rather just to contrast it in terms of alternatives.

Compare 2 Defiants to 1 Dictator, assuming a squadron and base contact for turret support and AC combining:

200 pts vs 210 pts
4 AC each, +50% hits to Defiants, -50% shields, -33% bomber attack run suppression.
67% torps & focusable firepower, no offside firepower, 90° turns.

So, the reduced cost, extra 4 hits and turn rate probably don't make up for the extra break points (3/6/9/12 vs 4/8), turret/shield loss and loss of total and focusable firepower. I think with a-boats it'd come close to being a viable option. Oh well.

[RCgothic]

Then again, the very fact that it's so much cheaper has a value all by itself. It allows you to take some CAP even if you don't have a proper carrier. Two Dictators do not really equal one Emperor either.

Valuing the stripped down version at between 90 to 100pts wouldn't be too far wrong.

[Plaxor]

So a few final thoughts before completion;

Tyrant, should the base type be cheaper (175) and the upgraded type stay at 180?

Idolator, this one has been bugging me, should we instead of making it 40 points give it the new fraal tech (left shift within 30cm) and LFR lances? The model does have a rotating turret....

AdMech, does anything need to be done for them? I know we didn't talk about them, but does their BB need balanced?

[RCgothic]

Tyrant, should the base type be cheaper (175) and the upgraded type stay at 180?

Maybe. I can see that FP10 with 4@45 is weaker than FP12 that would be 180, but the range does come with a premium. I am really disappointed that so many people have come down against FP12 base though. What are the reasons not to? It's equivalent to the Lunar and Gothic, only for people who prefer WBs.

Idolator, this one has been bugging me, should we instead of making it 40 points give it the new fraal tech (left shift within 30cm) and LFR lances? The model does have a rotating turret....

No to the fraal tech. I don't see the purpose in introducing a special rule when a points drop works. As for the L/F/R lance, I'll go with maybe.

AdMech, does anything need to be done for them? I know we didn't talk about them, but does their BB need balanced?

Actually, I suspect the Ark Mechanicus does need a little work compared to the other BBs. I'm sure Horizon has some opinions on a fix.

[horizon]

Hi,
Because 12wb/6 torps in the fleet is too perfect, boring and non-Imperium.
10wb@45 (190pts) /6torps is just good.


Adeptus Mechanicus: Battleship with fixed upgrades is good. But ditch the rule that you need the ArchMagos.

[Plaxor]

@RC

The Idolator already has 'fraal tech', it doesn't count column shifts for firing over 30cm. Newer versions of Fraal tech instead say that they get a left column shift on the gunnery table.