List of flawed ships

[Plaxor]

Eh, I hate being a party spoiler. Give those CG's prow sensors as an option.

Hmm... that's nto a bad option, but how much would it cost?

Someone suggested 20 points, which is about the cost of +1 leadership (chaos lord at 25).

[BaronIveagh]

Eh, I hate being a party spoiler. Give those CG's prow sensors as an option.

Hmm... that's nto a bad option, but how much would it cost?

Someone suggested 20 points, which is about the cost of +1 leadership (chaos lord at 25).

Sound good to me.  I vote for

[Vaaish]

I'd never take it at 20 points. CG don't usually have a problem with leadership and the only ship that would really benefit from it as IN would be the Exorcist. The rest it doesn't provide much utility. It also doesn't make sense that is the cost of the +1. If you look at the emperor or oberon, both have it built in and dropping the +1 and the cost by 20 points puts them as cheap as a retribution.

[Plaxor]

The Emperor and Oberon trade their prow 6+ armor for it. The GCs don't have that to trade.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I still prefer Prow Torps on the Vengeances.

[BaronIveagh]

I still prefer Prow Torps on the Vengeances.

Why not have all the above as possible purchasable options.

[lastspartacus]

I think, personally, leadership bonuses make more sense in general for leaders than hard LD rates.  Any chance of this happening for non-chaos races?


Anyway, do we have a compilation of proposed changes?  Theres so many ships to cover.

[Plaxor]

Anyway, do we have a compilation of proposed changes?  Theres so many ships to cover.

Yes. I've been updating the first post as people discussed the options and voted on them. We're nearly finished with the first version of IN/Chaos.

[Plaxor]

Dear Admiral,

   Vote on stuff dammit!

-Plaxor.

P.S. Horizon did, his comment was, "Whatever Sigoroth says about marines is true."

[RCgothic]

GCs: 25 points prow torp upgrade (6) no longer resists prow criticals if upgraded
Improved engines @ 5 points
20 point prow sensor array (see emperor)
[/color]

Improved engines wtf? just 5pts? When was this decided?

[Sigoroth]

Concerning SM/Ork disparity given the 4th shield/turret of the BB: Orks are a weak fleet to begin with. Look at it from the perspective of them being fixed. Let's say, a total decrease in cost of 15%. That would mean that a current 1000 pt Ork fleet would have another 150 pts to buy something else, which in turn costs 15% less, so this equates to another 172.5 pts worth of ships. So while BBs may get an extra shield and turret (at a slight cost hike no less) the Orks would in turn get another squadron of escorts or a KK for free.

The IN and other fleets are getting their options tweaked to make more ships useful, meaning more utility. Since the SMs are also a weak fleet and the BB is one of the reasons it's weak, and it doesn't make sense that it has only 3 shields/turrets given the fluff and the fact it tends to defeat the point of giving it 6+ armour in the first place then I cannot see why it shouldn't get its due.

I am also confused by the notion that Tau ordnance fleets will absolutely dominate a TH reduced SC and yet at the same time a 4th shield/turret BB will dominate a Tau ordnance fleet. 

Surely if both changes are enacted then there will be some balancing factor there, particularly if the SMs retain the option to go up to current AC levels at a cost.

With the CG options, I must say again that I think that each upgrade should only be allowed once in a fleet. So if you took 2 Avengers, you could give one the prow armour and another the torps for instance. You couldn't give them both the prow armour. This is the basis upon which I suggested such a versatile array of options. It is based upon the notion that a lot of experimentation with refitting was done with no consistent application of a single refit (since none was sufficient to bring these classes out of mothballs in a systematic manner).

[horizon]

Having one upgrade only is cool. (CG's)

Hence, I like the torpedo option best. And I withdrew my objection against sensors because I don't want to be a party-pooper.

[Plaxor]

Improved engines wtf? just 5pts? When was this decided?

RCgothic, I think you weren't paying attention to what improved engines does. It adds +1d6 on AAF, not +5cm and +1d6 as per advanced engines.

+1d6 on AAF is probably not worth 5 points on a gc. As you will probably only be AAF with your avengers.

[Plaxor]

Let's say, a total decrease in cost of 15%. That would mean that a current 1000 pt Ork fleet would have another 150 pts to buy something else, which in turn costs 15% less, so this equates to another 172.5 pts worth of ships.

If all the ork ships costs are added together once. Then the cost difference in my document is only 2%. However the 1500 point ork fleet I ran the other day would've cost 6% less, as the cost disparities are presented the most in the escorts. KK's and TS aren't reduced in cost for good reason. If the TS is reduced then it would be allowed in cruiser clash missions. If the KK is reduced it would be too comparable to CLs, and the strike cruiser.

Also the 6+ prow idea got murdered along with all the dorsal options on gcs.

[horizon]

AE = +5cm + 5d6 AAF = AdMech.